Which Way Does Time Go?: The Spoiler-Free Speculation Thread

I think there was a little bit of foreshadowing when Chase said of Amber, "You may not be able to destroy her." Ooh, great catch. That's really creepy in retrospect. And who could blame Wilson if he did feel that way? Oh, people are blaming him left and right. I'm not but a lot of others are.

I think Wilson will definitely be blaming House for Amber's death. If House hadn't gotten drunk and then forgotten his cane, Amber never would have been on the bus. I think there was a little bit of foreshadowing when Chase said of Amber, "You may not be able to destroy her." It turns out House did destroy her, whether he meant to or not. We know that House contributed to Wilson's 2nd marriage falling apart too. He nearly lost his job because of House (Vogler) and then he nearly lost his license because of House (Tritter). I wonder if there will be a period of time where Wilson truly wants nothing to do with House and blames House for destroying everything good in his life. And who could blame Wilson if he did feel that way? I still cannot see how this is House's fault, to be honest. Why is it his fault? Would we judge this way if it happened in real life? If a child went out, did something stupid and called his friend to pick him up and on their way back they would get in the bus and the bus crashes and the friend dies. Would anyone blame that child for having called his friend, thus making the child responsible for his friend's death? The situation with House here was no different. He simply had had a few too many drinks at a bar and called a friend to pick him up (which is a sensible thing to do). He didn't do anything that would have put Wilson's/Amber's life on the line. Of course Wilson may not be able to apply logic over emotions for a while and blame House, but the blame is unjustified and I would understand it if Wilson simply needed someone to be blamed for his misery for a while. Same goes for his ex-wives. You cannot blame someone else for your misfortunes. Wilson has a brain and free will. If he lets others destroy whatever it is he enjoys, I'd say that it is his dilemma and his active decision to do so. In this vain, I'd have to agree with Amber's view on Wilson. Wilson is the one who makes himself miserable, in the same fashion (though with different methodoloy) House makes himself miserable. They are actively choosing to be miserable in my opinion.

I agree, faust76. They are both highly professional, capable, intelligent and well-trained physicians who routinely deal with life and death situations. They are grown men, not children, neither is innocent of life's complications, and I suspect they both know, at least now, that they will have to change themselves to make things better, perhaps even to survive. And neither one of them is good with change. I like Wilson a lot, but sometimes friendships even when people like each other are stiflling, and sadly it looks like this may be so with Wilson and House. Even though they are fond of each other, Wilson has had a a taste of a healthier relationship, so I'd expect him to move on, and House, well, he keeps choosing life, so maybe he'll come a little closer this time.

You're trying to contain grief with logic. And would people be judged this way in real life? Probably so, at least while the emotions were raw. House didn't premeditate this so it's not his fault in that sense. However, House has a history of behaving irresponsibly and bringing people down with him. It would be foolish of anyone who is involved with someone like House to not question whether or not a relationship with him was worth the headaches and heartaches that it inevitably brings. (But that's what makes good drama, which hopefully season 4 will return to! :) ) **Removed a quote because I'm trying to find a stray tag to fix the board format and not having much luck**

You're trying to contain grief with logic. And would people be judged this way in real life? Probably so, at least while the emotions were raw. House didn't premeditate this so it's not his fault in that sense. However, House has a history of behaving irresponsibly and bringing people down with him. It would be foolish of anyone who is involved with someone like House to not question whether or not a relationship with him was worth the headaches and heartaches that it inevitably brings. (But that's what makes good drama, which hopefully season 4 will return to! :) ) I wonder if Cuddy's line from last season will be resurrected---that House brings everyone around him down. Given the anvils on the head about upcoming House/Cuddy-ness, I'm wondering if she'll be rescued by her own assessment of him which, to date, has been mostly dropped.

It's not that it really IS House's fault, it's that both House and Wilson may perceive it to be. Like extra_cat said logic doesn't really apply. Remember 'Hunting', when the father blamed the HIV-positive son for the mother's death because he couldn't donate an organ to her? IMO that's not logical, but the son blamed himself too. As I said earlier House's actions leading to Amber's death is symbolic of House's relationships, of the effect House has on Wilson in particular. It would be ironic if after all the times House has refused to acknowledge how he's hurt people with bad things he's done, he would accept blame and be motivated to change by something that wasn't his fault. If House does examine himself and his relationships maybe he'll be motivated to make a change with his friendship with Wilson. I can't see him not wanting to be friends with Wilson anymore (I'm tempted to say "because Wilson wouldn't have a function on the show anymore" but hey, look at Chase and Cameron"), but this whole season House has been clingy with Wilson and the chain of events leading to Amber's death seems to have been set in motion by House needing Wilson's attention. Not a healthy dependance. I know lots of people are angry with Wilson for asking House to risk his life for Amber's, but I can't see House being angry about it so I don't think that's going to be an issue. I doubt Thirteen will be written off the show, at least not right away, so we'll probably get a storyline about her dealing with her prognosis personally and professionally and seeing herself in their patients. That would be great drama in any character except Thirteen (can't help it, she bores me).

You're trying to contain grief with logic. And would people be judged this way in real life? Probably so, at least while the emotions were raw. House didn't premeditate this so it's not his fault in that sense. However, House has a history of behaving irresponsibly and bringing people down with him. It would be foolish of anyone who is involved with someone like House to not question whether or not a relationship with him was worth the headaches and heartaches that it inevitably brings. (But that's what makes good drama, which hopefully season 4 will return to! :) ) I did not mean to contain grief with logic. What I was trying to say was that I do find it perfectly fine if Wilson blamed House for what had happened while in the state of grief and despair. This is humane and acceptable (in that phase). It will be interesting to see how far beneath the surface his reflection on what has happened will be - and how far his self-reflection will go. In my world, it would be only natural for both House and Wilson to feel guilty about what had happened. House for thinking he is responsible for the accident and *some* feelings for Amber and Wilson for asking his best friend to risk his life for Amber. Both are guilty - ad absurbum, not by cause. Rationally, no one is to blame for anything, but yes, they will not see it that way. Edited to add: It's not that it really IS House's fault, it's that both House and Wilson may perceive it to be Saw Taiga's response only after I hit submit. Yes, I think that might be the case for both of them. I don't dislike Thirteen. Most seem to. I was moved by her in the second part of the finale. I assume I am in the minority with this opinion. :) **Edited by EC to fix stray tags**

I can't see him not wanting to be friends with Wilson anymore (I'm tempted to say "because Wilson wouldn't have a function on the show anymore" but hey, look at Chase and Cameron"), but this whole season House has been clingy with Wilson and the chain of events leading to Amber's death seems to have been set in motion by House needing Wilson's attention. Not a healthy dependance. I agree. With CC, it's not as if they hate House or House hates them, Wilson can't just go on season after season with he and House hating each other, that wouldn't work and it would be pointless, YMMV. I don't think House is mad at Wilson either, he's probably hurt be he accepts it. I don't see Wilson as moving on either, I think he's going to be very isolated for a while. I don't see him connecting with anyone new. I still cannot see how this is House's fault, to be honest. Why is it his fault? Would we judge this way if it happened in real life? For me, it's not that I think it's House's fault. It's not even that I think Wilson thinks it's his fault, but if Wilson does blame House, while grieving, I'll understand where he's coming from and I can understand House blaming himself.

It's not that it really IS House's fault, it's that both House and Wilson may perceive it to be. Agreed. And I do think it's important that the only evidence we were given that Wilson will "hate" House came solely from House's own mind, in his coma dream with Amber. When we saw the "real" Wilson, he was in House's ICU room (near the door, but inside the room), he caught House's eye, and then nodded slightly before leaving. Personally, I didn't interpret anything within that scene to mean that Wilson is mad at House, just worn down -- exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically. From Wilson's actions, it's impossible to say with any certainty how he feels about House at this point. But that's not to say that House can't interpret it as anger. House, since he expects hate, may well think that Wilson didn't want to talk to him, while Wilson, in his own mind, simply is not in any condition to deal with House's issues in addition to his own at that moment. I think it was a very interesting choice for them to take in terms of telling the story, because they left it open to interpretation by the viewers as well as by House.

ITA with your whole post Namaste. I was watching the episode again last night, and I still didn't notice any anger there, but a lot of guilt, regret and sorrow. If something will keep them apart at the beginning of S5, it will be that. faust76 wrote: House for thinking he is responsible for the accident and *some* feelings for Amber I'm not sure what you mean by "some feelings", but I don't think House feels guilty for the accident - that was the truck driver's fault. He feels guilty for the phone call and his intentions by doing that. There's an old proverb in my native language that says: so many times a pitcher goes to the fountain until one day it breaks. He did that same action (calling Wilson for nothing but his own selfish reasons) so many times that at some point something would end up breaking, hence his guilt.

It sounds a lot like Russian proverb! Povadilsya kuvshin po vodu hodit, ne minovat emu i bitim bit. Don't know what Wilson's reaction would be and I am confident they will "get back together", but as far as RL is concerned, if someone I love went on to pick up continually irresponsible friend who stupidly got too drunk to get home on their own, and even worse, *could* get home on their own, but thought it was more fun to get someone else to do it, and that loved one would die, when if not for this friend they would be safely home, I don't think I could stand to look at that friend, and I guess I would hate him/her to certain degree. It's not like it would be their fault, nor should they blame themselves, but why keep contact with people when sheer sight of them fills you with negative emotions? So, to me this possible situation would make emotional sense. But I think House means way too much for Wilson to cut him off because there are some unpleasant feelings involved.

I suspect that the general idea of the proverb may exist in many, many languages, not only in Russian and Portuguese... :lol: But, you see, House is responsible in some degree, but so is Wilson, too. House did the same thing over and over because he knew he'd get what he wanted at the end: Wilson would drop everything to pick him up. I'm not sure if Wilson will be more angry at House, than he'll be with himself because he enabled every whim from House and now someone else got hurt - well, died! Their relationship, the way it's now, is unhealthy and can be very destructive if remains in the same way. What's gonna change - if something is gonna change - we'll see next season...

Wilson would drop everything to pick him up. I'm not sure if Wilson will be more angry at House, than he'll be with himself because he enabled every whim from House and now someone else got hurt - well, died! And let's not forget that Wilson's part of the dysfunctionality of their relationship is not contained to enabling House. Wilson of his own free will dumped his wives to spend time with House because he didn't want to face what was wrong with the relationships. He isn't always over at House's because House called him from a bar. Wilson is very surprised House was drinking like that in the afternoon. It wasn't par for the course. We saw in the past Wilson ask House if he could spend Christmas dinner with him because he didn't want to go home. There were lots of reasons these two spent time together. Amber called Wilson on his avoidance of facing the issues technique, but she probably didn't know enough yet to know that Wilson didn't spend his marriages doing absolutely everything he could for his wives. He spent a lot of it avoiding issues by spending time with House. Eventually, I hope we see Wilson remember that House calling him for a ride was part of a pattern he helped establish and just as much for his own reasons as House's. Wilson had every right to insist on breaking the pattern, but House's use of it to see Wilson doesn't make him an ogre to Wilson's innocent lamb.

Yes, I bet if Wilson is going to blame House (which I agree is not clear, of course he wouldn't be in the mood - or able to - comfort House right after his beloved died), he's going to blame himself, as well, but of course it will only make it worse. When you can't forgive yourself it's even harder to forgive someone else.

The Fox Mockumentary started with Lisa, Jesse and Hugh on the couch in Cuddy's office. Jennifer has two bits in the middle. Kal Penn and Peter Jacobson have 2 bits, including the ending one. Two people are missing - RSL and Olivia Wilde. I assume he's missing because they forgot to bring a shotgun to the set that day to "encourage" him to do the publicity. And I'm speculating that she's missing because she's leaving the show.

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