Water's October, Right?: House Fanfiction Discussion

What do you think House sees in Foreman? Why does he want to keep him? I'll go back to the post-Euphoria moments for my take on that: he needs Foreman because Foreman challenges him, and is more vocal about his disapproval of House's actions. To take it further, if Foreman represents mainstream medical/scientific thinking, then House -- despite his dislike for that thinking -- still must operate within that world. He needs a Foreman to remind him of those boundaries and which he can conceivably cross and which of those issues he hasn't yet sufficiently answered to allow him to cross the next boundary. He may say it's not lupus, but Foreman is there to remind him that he has to actually run the test to rule out lupus before he takes the next step. For fic purposes, I set up Blythe in "Friends, Family and Other Considerations" to note that John might have been a better parent -- wouldn't have crossed the line between punishment and abuse -- if someone had been there to tell him "no" more often. John was an officer who was used to having his orders followed, not questioned. At home she was a wife who may not have approved of everything he did, but too often believed him when he said he knew best. To me, House grew up seeing how that lack of an outside source to tell his father "no" affected his father -- and in turn affected him. As a result, he wants -- maybe even needs -- someone to remind him that there are boundaries to even his actions, no matter how much he thinks he is "right."

In The Jerk, House says "arrogance has to be earned." I don't think Foreman has earned his. For me, Foreman's main characteristics are that he is smug, arrogant and judgmental. House certainly embodies the first two, but in House they are offset by his humor. Foreman does occasionally get in a good line of snark, but usually his sense of humor consists of his laughing at (or at least looking down on) people. And, of course, House is HOT. For me, he's the only man on that show who is sexy 100% of the time (okay, 99% of the time. He wasn't terribly sexy lying in a pool of puke.) Wilson can be sexy occasionally (if I squint just right.) Chase is adorable and pretty, but I've never been attracted to "pretty" men. As for Foreman, it took me the better part of a season to get to the point where his eyes didn't bother me to the point where I found him repellent. He always looks to me as if he has Graves Disease. If it weren't for his eyes, would I find him hot? I think probably not. I don't think it's his race (at least not primarily although in our society it is hard to determine to what extent racism is ingrained in oneself.) There certainly have been some black men who I have found drool-worthy. But I don't particularly like his body type (something about his musculature makes him look short and stocky to me -- like those Mr. Universe contestants -- despite the fact that I know he's not short.) And I dislike tattoos.

In The Jerk, House says "arrogance has to be earned." I don't think Foreman has earned his. For me, Foreman's main characteristics are that he is smug, arrogant and judgmental. House certainly embodies the first two, but in House they are offset by his humor. Foreman does occasionally get in a good line of snark, but usually his sense of humor consists of his laughing at (or at least looking down on) people. This is exactly what I see as one of the main differences between House and Foreman's attitudes House may talk a good game, but when it comes to medical care, he's not judgmental. Foreman is...so are the other two. I like what HL said in the dvd (I can't remember which part of the extras, but it rang very true to me). House is an old soul who has seen a great deal of human sufferning (I'm adding: including his own). House has humor to offset the smugness and a self-awareness that he can be arrogant and smug. Foreman however hasn't the medical chops (yet, or maybe not ever) to warrant that sort of professional smugness or arrogance. He not creative thinker (Chase is better at it). He's not especially compassionate (he's judmental and both C and C can be more compassionate, though all three are pretty judgmental).

Agreed. I should have said that House has the humor and the genius to merit it. I don't see Chase as judgmental when it comes to medical care. He is certainly judgmental on the subject of obesity, but not in the care he delivers. In Heavy he continued to give the patient the same care he would under any circumstances. I doubt she had the slightest inkling of his prejudices. In QSS, he had no problem leaving the case when House told him to but, again, the patient had no idea of how he felt. Foreman and Cameron, on the other hand, make it very clear to the patient when they disapprove. For Foreman I would cite Histories, Acceptance, Euphoria Part 1 (he was nasty to the cop before he got sick himself) and House Traing. And Cameron likes to physically hurt people she doesn't approve of -- Spin, Sleeping Dogs Lie, etc.

I write about Chase because I identify closely with him. I write Cam/Chase because it's the pairing I "get" the most; it's the one I think I can write the best right now. I'm new to writing fanfic, so I'm doing what a good friend suggested: starting small. So far, it seems to be going pretty well. I've got a nice little group of people who read my work (it's on LJ at my writing journal, which is dragonsbloodink for anyone who may be interested; please don't feel obligated). There's a glut of H/W and it is written by a very talented group of people. I would love to write them, but don't want to get in over my head. I have a House-centric idea brewing, but feel absolutely blocked every time I go to start putting it on paper. Ugh. Foreman appears in the ongoing fic I'm writing, but it's not a "deep" fic. It's just for fun, and practice. Zulu: naked pictures of Omar to aithlyn at yahoo dot com, please. ;)

Apropos of the Foreman discussion, I'm going to mention the elephant in the room: the fandom is made up mainly of white women and girls. How likely is it that Foreman is written less often because the writers are unsre of thier ability to get inside a black man's head? Of course these same writers have no difficulty at all believing that they can write from the perspective of a white man, but the white women who do most of the fanfic writing have interacted with white men--from the fathers and brothers to friends, boyfriends, and significant others--all their lives, so writing across the gender gap may seem less of a stretch than writing across the racial gap. Hm, not sure why white women are assumed not to interact with black men. Unless you live in some rural town in Vermont where there aren't any black people... or you are terribly racist. I'm a white woman, and I'm not saying I'm surrounded by boyz from da hood, but I do live in a large city, I went to grade school, high school, and college, and I work at an organization with over 1,000 employees. Additionally, I have a few friends, and have met more than a few of their friends. I dated a black man for a year. I am not some model of racial tolerance. I am an ordinary white female New Yorker. I think there's a bigger gap between man/woman, gay/straight, rich/poor, and doctor/non-doctor than black/white, but that's just my $0.02. I never found Omar Epps to be convincing as Foreman. I don't think it's any coincindence that the characters I find most compelling are portrayed by the actors I consider the most talented. No matter how great a character may be written, if the actor can't sell it to me, it's hard for me to get into the characterization. Likewise some bad movies and ridiculous characters have been saved by excellent actors. I guess I have a question for people who just follow their pairing ... is it because that's all that interests you? Is it a lack of time? Is it because of exposure to badfic outside of that pairing area? As far as slash, I'm not convinced by any ol' pairing nor am I fascinated by all the characters. I only read fiction about House and Wilson because I'm interested in their characters. The other characters are not boring, but the show itself is sufficient exposure to them. Whereas with House and Wilson, I want to know more about them. Not that I am immune to wanting to see two hot actors get it on, but if I can't see any attraction in the canon, then I am not interested in the slash. I wish I had more time to read House and Wilson friendship fics, because I like those, too, but I adore slash fics and reading those takes up the time I have to devote to fanficcery.

I thought one of the students in the first season episode "Histories" could have been Indian, or southeast Asian of some kind. That was the one I was talking about. Although I guess there was one in "Three Stories", sitting next to the East Asian girl. And maybe one in Cuddy's little flock. Foreman represents the groupthink qualities of science and medicine at large, which has always been in conflict with House, but yet House has to work within the confines of that science. Hmm, agreed. And he is interesting because of it: he's the one who has to give the most (in terms of flexibility) to work with House, and he's the one who gives off the most sense of having given something up to get the fellowship, so why would he do something like that? Throw away a life that was working for him and go to work for a man he professes to hate? Or at least whose practices he hates? Fascinating.

I know it's really trite, but I still see the fellows (I will never call them the d-word) as parts of one person's consciousness. Not the id, ego, and super-ego because they don't really fit those. More like tarot cards, maybe. Okay, now someone needs to make a House Tarot :D I'm so glad I'm not the only one seeing the connection between House and the Tarot. I thought it was just me being biased. I have been working on a story with this theme. Chase seems to me to be representative of creativity, drives (to get what you want, be secure, be happy etc), self-preservation, instinct, etc. Cameron, to me, represents emotional reactions to things. I might've at one time said compassion, but I think emotional reaction to events - both positive and negative - works better now. Foreman represents rules, logic, reason, book smarts, the mastery of the mind over the self, etc. I agree with you. And I'll go one further. (You know you're obsessed with House when...) I think the way the characters are named gives us clues about what they symbolize. (How very Matrix!) I was reading an article about the human body and it referred to the brain as the body's foreman. I was amused by that and immediately thought of Foreman and how he's all about what you mentioned above. (He also happens to be a brain specialist.) So I started thinking about the names of the other fellows. (I never use the D word either.) Cameron, or Cam. What is the body's cam? I think it's the heart. And Cameron is all about emotions. (She's not a heart specialist, but clinical immunologists study ways to avoid transplant rejection. And her character is all about rejection when it comes to matters of the heart.) Chase is tougher (no surprises here, right?) because I believe he stands for the soul, and that resides in the body (temporarily) but isn't one particular area of it... hence, Chase (formerly of the seminary) is now an intensivist who cares for the person as a whole. We "chase" meaning in life. We chase our dreams. We are driven by our True Will, which many people equate to the soul. And what is more important than preservation of the soul? Oh, lookie: more teal deer. :blushing:

Foreman however hasn't the medical chops (yet, or maybe not ever) to warrant that sort of professional smugness or arrogance. He not creative thinker (Chase is better at it). He's not especially compassionate (he's judmental and both C and C can be more compassionate, though all three are pretty judgmental). But then, he's got the most prestigious fellowship. He hasn't been with House the longest, but he's got more authority and apparently better credentials than the other to. How do you reconcile that with your ideas about his overdone arrogance? I think that if Foreman were working under anyone but House, his arrogance would seem fairly merited. We've seen Foreman be compassionate. "Histories", "Fools For Love" - there are things he cares about and ways he shows that. He doesn't make the same leaps that Chase does, but he's a solid and excellent doctor.

Foreman also showed a great deal of compassion and interest in the Romany POTW in "Needle in a Haystack." He was adamant that the kid needed to continue his schooling and was willing to help him get an interview at the hospital for a paid intern position. Even if the kid refused his offer, Foreman did want to help him.

I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but given lovelythings comment about Foreman having the most prestigious fellowship, can someone refer me to where in canon this is mentioned? As I'm not a fan of Foreman, I tend to fast forward through some of his scenes, and I often read about his fellowship being "better". If this is better answered in the character threads, I understand. Thanks!

About Foreman being compassionate in "Histories", in my mind it's not so much compassion as feeling really, really guilty because at first he dismissed the patient. Only when it became apparent that he had been wrong about that he suddenly started to care (a lot like what happened in "Acceptance"). Or is that just me?

But then, he's got the most prestigious fellowship. He hasn't been with House the longest, but he's got more authority and apparently better credentials than the other to. How do you reconcile that with your ideas about his overdone arrogance? I think that if Foreman were working under anyone but House, his arrogance would seem fairly merited. I love Omar Epps, and I think that Foreman is a complex character, but I tend to agree that he's the most frustrating to relate to. My major problem with Foreman's arrogance is this: He refuses to learn from House. The point of a fellowship is to be a student and learn. Foreman is so wrapped up in telling House, "Nope; no way; it can't be; you're wrong!" that he has that whole forest-trees problem. The most shocking episode for me was Finding Judas, in which he (and Cameron) were so absorbed in going after Chase and insulting him for ass-kissing that they both refused to see that House's conjecture about the little girl having gallstones was right, and Chase was right in accepting House's reasoning (the enlarged bile ducts.) In that case, Chase had learned something from House, whereas the other two STILL stuck to their mistaken reasoning and didn't get anything out of the interchange with House.

I think the way the characters are named gives us clues about what they symbolize. (How very Matrix!) How interesting! On a similar note I can't be the first person (or even the hundredth) to have wondered if the images given to each of the actors on the House opening credits have any deeper meaning. House = brain - the genius behind everything Cuddy = nerves = the one who has to carry the responsibility Foreman = chest/heart Wilson = brain (I'm on the wrong thread to start going on about the significance of having the same body part as House 8) ) Cameron = a river - hmmm. the wet one?! Chase = spine = the backbone, the reliable one Any fics been inspired by this sort of thing?

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