Foreman has a gift for sucking the interest right out of me. I remember, waaaaay back in S1, starting a story, and Foreman was my first narrator. But I never finished the story, and when I looked at it after SDL, I was disgusted with him, and I've never quite been able to pick him back up. Man, do I carry a grudge. :lol: I suspect Foreman reminds me of several really horrible people I've worked for, only not as crazy. Therefore, I do not wish to dwell on him or spend time with him in my head, no matter how very aesthetically appealing he may be. Although when I read good Foreman fic, my reaction is usually "hey, nifty!" so I guess it depends. But if fan fiction also serves to act on what ifs, then it's possible that Foreman has too much canon information. There's no mystery of what his parents are like, a brother isn't long-lost when he knows exactly where he is, his love life is both fairly pedestrian and a contribution to why women complain they can't find good men. Too much exposition, not enough hints. It gets a glare instead of a sideways glance on the show, so I think it's harder to figure out where the holes are, and where there are a few, they haven't been done already by better writers. (I only wrote about Foreman once, and not really, because I killed him. I was merciful, he didn't suffer. But the funny thing? It's the story that I forget I wrote, and I only remember it when I look at my LJ tags.) I have, in all honesty, been working on a Chase/Cameron story since the finale. It's been like pulling teeth, and I can't figure out why that is. I suspect part of the problem is that I don't really trust what Cameron did there in the finale. I never felt like she had any big internal push-and-pull going on regarding her feelings, so it's hard to figure out her decision to leap. (I suspect lots of other people just think they're cute but kinda boring.)

Ah, the Foreman question. I've been thinking about it now, and I think I've figured out why I never seem able to write him. For me to get a grip on a character, one of the most important things I look for is their sense of humor. I don't mean that I need them to go around telling jokes or doing silly things; I just need to know what might amuse them. I need that evidence -- and it can show up even in the darkest places, just in the way they talk, the expressions they use, the remarks they make. For me, that kind of subtle woven-into-daily-life sense of humor is an essential survival skill. I don't know how anyone functions without it. House has an awesome sense of humor, and it's one of the reasons he's so interesting and so much fun to write. Without it he'd just be a sad, mean bastard whose leg hurts all the time. Wilson and Cuddy each have their own wicked sort of wit; Chase has the oddly blunt sense of humor that makes him put his foot in his mouth sometimes. Even Cameron has her moments, though they're all too rare. But for the life of me I can't find any sense of humor in Foreman, and maybe that's why I can't figure out where he's coming from. Maybe it's there and I've missed it? I don't know. I've seen Foreman be a genuinely nice, decent person, but I've never been able to figure out where his humor is, and without that I don't know how to write him.

I think Foreman has a very self-satisfied kind of humor; he laughs a lot at the people around him because he thinks he's better than they are or that they're idiots. Also, I think it's hilarious when House gets to him. He doesn't have to be the one with the sense of humour; he can be the straight man, the foil. I've laughed just writing the guy.

Apropos of the Foreman discussion, I'm going to mention the elephant in the room: the fandom is made up mainly of white women and girls. How likely is it that Foreman is written less often because the writers are unsre of thier ability to get inside a black man's head? Of course these same writers have no difficulty at all believing that they can write from the perspective of a white man, but the white women who do most of the fanfic writing have interacted with white men--from the fathers and brothers to friends, boyfriends, and significant others--all their lives, so writing across the gender gap may seem less of a stretch than writing across the racial gap. And most of the writers aren't doctors, either--and most (if we include the ff.net crowd) are considerably younger than House or even Chase. But I think the way race is talked about--or not talked about--in mainstream American society means that racial differences are mysterious in a way that occupational and generational differences are not. I'm not at all sure that Foreman's race is the most important, or even an important, reason he's written less than the rest of the main cast, but since the discussion has gone on for a page and a half without anyone even mentioning it, I figured I'd be the one to run it up the flagpole.

Oh, Roga mentioned it a few pages back. I do think you're right, Alex, but it's an aspect that very few people are willing to acknowledge. As far as the mystery of writing from a perspective you don't understand...I think all we can do, really, is our best. Watch the episodes, and write our characterization as close to canon as we can. If we get something wrong, be open to concrit about it.

Yeah, that too, Alexei. How does a white girl like me do justice to the experience of a black guy in a hospital that doesn't even have any Indians? (And seriously, a hospital in Jersey with one Indian med student? Please.) Foreman may be trying to say that his race isn't an issue, but House makes it one, and it's clear that Foreman is proud of having overcome the obstacles of his young life, some of which were no doubt related to his race. And continue to be. How am I supposed to represent that in any kind of truthful way? As for me, I don't write Foreman that often because I find that he's terribly slippery. I can't pin him down. He's wise, he's gifted, he's compassionate, he's a hardass, he reacts to House's juvenile behavior in a slightly juvenile way, he's ambitious, he's arrogant, and he wants to pare a lot of these things away. But he doesn't want to be like Cameron, all compassion, and he doesn't want to be like Chase, whom he seems to view as an indolent rich boy, and he doesn't want to be like House. Foreman's ambitions are more not-wanting than wanting. To me, he's all negative space. When he does come out in support of something idealistic, like in "Fools For Love", he's deeply passionate, but we only get glimpses of that. Usually he's kill-or-be-killed.

I'll fess up to the racial thing as well, on account of feeling like -- what do I know? I'm a white girl who grew up in the country. If I saw much real humor in him it really would help (and I don't tend to see his superior attitude as 'humor', which is interesting, because House laughs at the morons around him all the time and get that -- but when Foreman does it it seems more truly superior and less funny).

I never thought about it like that. I don't know... For me I don't his skin colour and background is a problem. It's more Omar's acting ability. And his unbelieveably irritating parents who nark me off something chronic. And how hard can it be. He's not really in da hood with his homies a la Spike Lee. He's a doctor who reads Forbes and just happens to be a total pratt with one facial expression - that makes you want to hit him. But I think he is interesting. He's facade. He's so emotionally stunted as a character and I think that makes it hard for writers to emphathise with him. If I could be bothered writing about him and look closely at the characters I think he (and Cameron and Chase)would be really interesting to explore. But apparently 90 percent of all ff is about shagging rather than great character explorations. And there are Omar is TEH HAWT sites out there.

And seriously, a hospital in Jersey with one Indian med student? Please. I thought one of the students in the first season episode "Histories" could have been Indian, or southeast Asian of some kind. Another thougth as to Foreman ... I think part of his job is to be unlikeable. To me, he's a contrast to House in that he has all of the smarts, all of the knowledge, all of the training -- certainly that self-important attitude -- but lacks the ability to make intuitive leaps that House does. He even lacks the ability to think that intuitive leaps make sense. He doesn't appreciate them -- or House's ability -- because you can't measure or study or quantify those leaps. That's why he always thinks that House is merely "lucky." Foreman represents the groupthink qualities of science and medicine at large, which has always been in conflict with House, but yet House has to work within the confines of that science. So as a fanfic writer, to me it's interesting to take that point of view -- the prevailing scientific approach to medicine -- and play with how Foreman is trying to wrap his head around that, how he rejects it or how he accepts it or how he tries to work within in.

Sheep, I'm...rather confused about some of the statements you've made here. I'll admit, it's 4:30 in the morning and a ridiculous time for me to be awake, but...lemme try and understand this. I never thought about it like that. I don't know...For me I don't his skin colour and background is a problem. It's more Omar's acting ability. I think this is a troublesome statement, because we are talking about Foreman as a character, not Omar Epps as an actor. This is a discussion about fanfic, not about acting. Therefore, the actions that Foreman takes in canon, his reactions and his dialogue, are all that we can evaluate here--not how well they are delivered. It's a bit of a straw man argument to criticize the actor in a discussion about the character; it equates the show-business-real-universe with the fictional setting and events that the show portrays. And his unbelieveably irritating parents who nark me off something chronic. May I ask what's irritating about Foreman's parents? They seem hard-working, middle class, religious, loving towards their son, and slightly conservative. His father seems worn down by being a full-time caregiver, and his mother is sadly altered by Alzheimer's. And how hard can it be. He's not really in da hood with his homies a la Spike Lee. He's a doctor who reads Forbes Are you suggesting that Foreman, as a middle-class and successful black person, has never encountered racism? He was canonically in a gang; his brother is in jail for dealing drugs. Is it his success that makes him exempt? and just happens to be a total pratt with one facial expression - that makes you want to hit him. Here, perhaps, you're touching on Foreman's arrogance. That might be a more tenable reason to dislike him as a character. Unfortunately, since it's part of the same sentence about his race relations, it seems as though you are conflating the two. But I think he is interesting. He's facade. He's so emotionally stunted as a character and I think that makes it hard for writers to emphathise with him. If writers find it difficult to empathize with an emotionally stunted character, why does House, a confirmed misanthrope, draw their interest? Why aren't writers interested in what lies below Foreman's facade? If I could be bothered writing about him and look closely at the characters I think he (and Cameron and Chase)would be really interesting to explore. Alex and Roga both raised the issue of race as a reason writers might "not want to bother" writing about Foreman--because understanding his perspective might be difficult, because his characterization is hard to pin down, or because they feel they might do him a disservice. Do you think this is true, or possible? But apparently 90 percent of all ff is about shagging rather than great character explorations. Personally, I believe that if it's done well, sexuality can be a great character exploration. Indeed, a lot of the time that's exactly what fanfic does--explores characters through their sexuality. Or, alternatively, their response to extreme situations. You seem to be implying, however, that fanfic about Foreman must be character gen, and does not (or could not?) involve pairings, sexuality, or his response to duress. And there are Omar is TEH HAWT sites out there. Yes, there are, and for good reason, too. That guy is smokin'. I shall email naked pictures to anyone who needs conclusive proof. But I fail to see how this point fits in with your argument in general. Anyway, as I say, it's ridiculously late/early. If I've misrepresented your words, I apologise, but as I say, I found your post confusing. Please excuse the herd of teal deer.

What do you think House sees in Foreman? Why does he want to keep him? Why did he put Foreman in charge of the group when he was the fellow with the least experience? I'll agree with many of you that too much of Foreman's background has been given, but for me it has always been more interesting to try to figure out why he appeals to House. I don't buy House assertion that it was his 'hood background' alone. I remember watching the show and assuming that Foreman would be in charge, but is it just because of his self-importantiness or drive?

I'd vote for self-importance-ness, I don't think he has much of a drive to be honest (or any other deep emotion or feeling - just that he "doesn't want to be like House").

House didn't put Foreman in charge of the group, Cuddy did. Chase just got in trouble, so obviously the one with the most experience couldn't be put in charge. Cameron was "in love" with House at the time. She couldn't be put in charge. Process of elimination. What seems to be the most prominent trait with Foreman is how judgemental he is. He bases his opinions of people on first interactions. So the I can find to write Foreman is to write something about him breaking down a prejudice he had or some preconceived notion he had. Otherwise I honestly think that race has little to do with it. People often want to blame race, but if the character was more interesting or more fluid, I think there would be more Foreman fiction. Think about it... we'll talk about Foreman for a few days, then something else will come up and we won't talk about Foreman again until the new season starts. If a character rarely inspires discussion, I don't think he's going to often much inspire fiction. And, again, I say that as someone who does include Foreman in my stories. LOL

I love to read this thread :) I'm going to de-lurk just to answer Namaste question... I guess I have a question for people who just follow their pairing ... is it because that's all that interests you? Is it a lack of time? Is it because of exposure to badfic outside of that pairing area? With me is all that interest me most of the time. I read ff to fill something that the show won't or couldn't do. If an author that I like writes about other character I'll give it a try, but only if it won't mess with my favorites (H/W by the way). And now I'm back to lurk mode again!