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aenissesthai- 08-26-2007

On the reviewing question: Thusly: amicable discussion, with everyone's best interests at heart, is ideal. Criticizing just to show off is embarrassing for all. But what does that mean, criticizing just to show off? I mean, a flame is a flame: "Your story sux, your OTP sux, your grandmother sux, and your little dog, too!" but can an honest, hard-hitting critique be completely useless as well? The bottom line is that many writers take their writing seriously and wish to improve as a writer, even if fanfic remains just a hobby, whereas other writers wish to be left alone to spin out their fantasies just for fun, tight plotting and true characterization be damned. So how does the reviewer tell the difference? You really can't, but I feel it's a mistake to deny a writer an honest critique on the fear that it will be taken badly. I think that one should leave gentle, specific critique, then sit back and see what the response is. If there's no response or a hostile response, then leave well enough alone, and don't attempt to get in a critiquing argument with someone who doesn't wish the input. Most of the time in this fandom, however, an interesting dialogue will be started, and new online relationships forged. But unlike the "friend to tea" analogy, I don't believe that we have to tiptoe around those who might possibly pitch an emo fit when receiving critique. When a writer publicly posts their work, it's NOT like being invited into their home. It's more like they pitch a sign on your lawn advertising their stuff, and you have the right to say, "Hm, nice," or "Needs work."

Namaste- 08-26-2007

Plus if "darker elements" figure prominently in some of your stories, people tend to view you as someone who eats puppies and kittens for breakfast and kills unicorns for sport. Nah. That's only true for Anne Rice.

blackmare- 08-26-2007

I don't believe that we have to tiptoe around those who might possibly pitch an emo fit when receiving critique. I do what you suggested -- I start small and see what sort of response I get. I will however only do this for a story I generally like. If a good conversation starts, I'll happily take it into email or something, so that any deeper/more sensitive things (or things which might spoil future parts of the story for other readers) aren't out there in public. If the response I get is in the "emo fit" range, or suggests to me that any further critique will cause a negative reaction, I don't tiptoe around. I simply stop commenting at all, either with criticism or with praise. There are enough people who do want honest feedback; why waste my time coddling one who doesn't?

blackmare- 08-26-2007

But what does that mean, criticizing just to show off? Oh, it can be done. I've seen instances where someone "critiqued" a story in a way that couldn't be called "flaming" but was clearly designed to demonstrate their total superiority over the writer. It's the tone (condescending or snide) that does it. I think that such reviewers will often review works they do not like at all, just for the chance to work that superior tone and make themselves feel better. It has nothing to do with actually wanting to help anyone.

Hibernia- 08-26-2007

It's the tone (condescending or snide) that does it. I think that such reviewers will often review works they do not like at all, just for the chance to work that superior tone and make themselves feel better. It has nothing to do with actually wanting to help anyone. Yes, I know what you mean, and it indeed is all about the reviewer and not at all about the story/author/a serious desire to help. I dislike this way of reviewing intensely. Besides, if you don't like a story, why review at all?

MissViolet- 08-26-2007

Ooh, lotsa discussion during the week I was on vacation... As far as the top or bottom question, it's unimportant to me. I don't think these roles are so clearly defined in all m/m relationships, anyway, unless the couple happens to be into a submissive/dominant relationship. So I don't pay much attention to who's doing the penetrating when I read H/W smut. I only consider the writing and how it strikes me. Although there is a lot of poorly-written fics by the kids, I think its unkind to be too hard on them. We all have to start somewhere. I look at my first H/W slash fic - and I wasn't even a kid, just sorta new to the fandom - and it's not that great, quite honestly. So I guess I subscribe to the "don't-comment-if-you-don't-like" school. And let's have a few cheers for sex that involves no penetration at all!Most of my PWPs don't involve the bottom sex but more familiar acts that I have personally experienced with men, like manual, oral, or one of my faves, voyeuristic masturbation. Hope the next boyfriend will allow me to broaden my horizons ;) I could be the writer misere describes, and I'm sure I'd want to know if my story needed further editing. I mean, the editing takes a zillion times longer than the writing. It is the hardest part of writing, IMHO. It's never too late to edit and re-post, IMHO. When I receive feedback that points to necessary corrections, I always correct them. At the same time, sometimes I've done all I want to with a story and if it's not a simple grammar or typo problem, but a bigger issue of style, I don't have the heart to rewrite it. That may seem a little careless but sometimes I've just psychologically lost interest in a story and accepted that, while it could be better (all of my fics could be better; editing could go one forever), I want to explore new ideas and the previous stories will have to sit pat. Generally I try to thank everyone who leaves feedback for my stories, although this does give the impression that my stories have gotten twice as much feedback as they actually have received. I guess it's all those thank-you notes my parents made me write when I received gifts from relatives, it's sorta ingrained in me. Who in your life knows that you write fanfiction? Why did you choose to "come out" to that person/people? And finally, is there anyone who "found you out" as a fanfiction writer that you wish hadn't--and how did they find out?No-one knows. My fics are extremely pornographic and I'd no sooner share that with real-life friends than I would describe a vivid sexual fantasy with them. I'm not sexually open with my friends. I guess it's partly my liking for homosexual erotica and partly the geeky fan-fic aspect of it that makes me conceal my hidden online life. Oh, and also the fact that I'm a reserved person. If I had a close friend whom I knew also enjoyed homosexual erotica, I'd be open about my hobby. But my straight male and female friends do not; they are kinda repulsed by it. My close gay friend knows I like the m/m porn but he's not a House fan and also, it comes back to the whole issue of sharing sexual fantasies, which are in my opinion, private thoughts not suitable for discussion. If I had a friend who liked House and was not turned off by m/m, I'd be more open about discussing the slashy aspects of the show. I have friends who possess one or the other qualities but not both, and so my slash writing and slashy H/W obsessions are my secret.

Poeia- 08-26-2007

I think one thing makes it obvious whether or not a writer would be open to serious concrit which would help them improve -- did they proofread the fic before posting it and run it past a spell-checker? If the typing is a mess, it's a pretty sure guess that it was written by someone who thought "I've got a brilliant idea. I'll have Chase break his toe and then he'll limp just like House. And I'll write it down and post it immediately so everyone can tell me how brilliant this idea is." And she doesn't want criticism -- constructive or otherwise. The people who clearly made an effort at cleaning it up before posting -- even if they're shaky on the rules of grammar and the canon personalities -- are the ones who can accept a "It's a good start. Here are some suggestions that would improve it." review.

XXXbandie- 08-26-2007

^Good point Poeia. Stories with bad grammer and spelling show me (as a reader) that you don't really care about your work, so I won't comment on it. And if I comment, it will just be a "Meh, okay" or "Good" or something like that. If the story has good grammer and spelling, I'm more inclined to comment, regardless if the story needs work or not. I'll give stories like that more serious reviews.

Paraoptomistic- 08-26-2007

'nother Capitalization Question: Mother and Father. I thought, if you are speaking of "House's father" it was lower case and when you are addressing someone, you capitalize. Unless you are talking about a priest. Have seen the other way though, is one or the other right, or am I obsessing unnecessarily?

CousinAlexei- 08-26-2007

Basically, if you're using a title (whether it's a family title like Mother, Father, or Aunt, or a professional title like Doctor or General), you capitalize it if you're using it as though it were someone's name, or part of someone's name. So if you say, "Go get Mom," you'd capitalize Mom, because you're using it like you'd use her name. If you use the title as a general noun, it's not capitalized. Usually a title used as a general noun has an article (a or the) or a posessive pronoun (your, his, etc) or a possessive noun (Greg's) in front of it. "Go get your mom," would be lower case, as would, "Greg's father made him sleep in the yard when he refused to go get his mom." If you're not sure, try subsituting the person's first name to check if the sentence makes sense that way. Do not change any other words. "Go get Mom," you could change to "Go get Blythe," and it makes sense. "Go get your mom," if you change to, "Go get your Blythe," doesn't make sense. If the title is used with a name, like "Aunt Sara" or "Doctor Chase," it's generally capitalized, but you can sub in "Mr." or "Mrs." to be sure.

aenissesthai- 08-26-2007

If you use the title as a general noun, it's not capitalized. Usually a title used as a general noun has an article (a or the) or a posessive pronoun (your, his, etc) or a possessive noun (Greg's) in front of it. Very nice, quick capitalization lesson, Alex; I really appreciate it! (I'm completely serious, by the way: I love when someone shows the mnemonic devices that help make grammatical rules clear.)

CousinAlexei- 08-26-2007

You're welcome. I teach English by profession, and clearly explaining rules of grammar and usage is one of the aspects of the job that I'm fairly good at. I'm happy to help with other questions.

blackmare- 08-26-2007

Hi, CousinAlexei. Here's the response I wrote for that discussion you started about JuliaB in the fanfic thread. I'm moving it over here to try and stay on-topic. I'm actually glad you brought up this issue as I think it is interesting. I've only read one JuliaB story, the title of which I cannot now recall. It was a multi-chaptered tale that followed House and Wilson in the aftermath of the death of House's father. There were a few things -- particularly toward the end -- which I felt went rather OOC for House, but other than that I found it generally an engaging read, with some parts I liked an awful lot. Overall I really enjoyed it. Many of her tales I've not read because the subject matter simply was not to my taste. I dipped into one or two others, though, and just ... failed to be gripped by them, for whatever reason. Something about the characterization felt off to me, perhaps, or maybe it was the structure of her writing that somehow didn't grab me. I couldn't find glaring faults; it was good enough, but I just didn't get pulled in. It's been long enough that I really can't recall any grammar problems I might have found. And I know how you feel, wondering what the deal is when you dislike her work, but other people like hers and your own both quite well. I feel exactly the same way about another author, whose stuff I find basically unreadable because I see it as so out of character and sappy. Yet someone else -- a writer I totally respect -- loves that person's work, and also seems to enjoy mine, and I ... scratch my head, sigh, and carry on. I'm editing this to add that I have never had any personal issue with JuliaB, and while I know she made a few gaffes, I was saddened by the meanness I saw directed toward her. It wasn't called for, IMO. And that, as a wise man once said, is all I have to say about that.

Kerry- 08-26-2007

I really enjoy JuliaBohemian's writing. It's not always totally in character, but I like very long, angsty stories that explore outside of the usual storylines. There are other writers I think may be a little better in their overall style, ICness, flow etc., but I really like the darkness of her stories, or the interesting situations they bring up. "A Hierarchy of Needs" is a recent one which explores the House becomes a father situation, but in a much more realistic way than many of the others I've seen. I certainly don't think her writing is bad - I also don't think she's the best writer in the fandom. But she updates often, writes long stories, and writes a lot of angsty mostly IC emotion - all things I really go for.

TrooperCam- 08-26-2007

Kerry pretty much said it for me. I like angsty stories and Jb's stuff fits the bill. I am not a big slasher so a lot of her stuff is not my taste, but I have to say I have been into Strangulation. I think as a writer she has a good handle on the characters and is one of the few writers who write a Cameron that doesn't make me want to head for the delete button. I have also engaged with her in discussions about some of the different aspects of her fics and I appreciate that she gets back to you when you post a comment...good or bad.