As you write the issue is whether the character is recognizable. Psychopathic, cruel, evil Wilson isn't recognizable. Weepy, easily manipulated, pathetic House isn't recognizable. That's YOUR opinion. Other people can look at House and might think that since it's been established that he at one point tolerated abuse from a parent AND since he allowed a cop to trip him into the exam room door and did NOT tell anyone about it, and he stole pills from a dead man in desperation and think maybe this is someone who would be capable of weakness. I would never in a million years have thought that the goal of the House creators was to portray a man who is super tough, without emotion or weakness. I think anyone who has watched the show from the beginning and has gotten that impression needs to either have their hearing or vision checked. Wilson being evil is slightly less arguable, to me. I don't think Wilson is evil and I think that it's not really in canon to portray him that way. I do however think that it's perfectly in canon to portray Wilson as someone who doesn't always do the right thing (since we know he doesn't. He's said as much himself) and who doesn't always have other people's interests, but his own in mind. Just because he makes a big show of saying how he's trying to help House, doesn't mean he actually is. He might think he is. But he obviously isn't. In fact, I can't think of a single one of his "attempts" to help House that was successful, aside from giving him antidepressants, which is questionable all by itself. I'm sorry to tell you that, like it or not, a generous portion of this fandom will interpret Wilson's actions during the first few episodes of the upcoming season as evil. That is his ACTIONS and not him as a person. Your definition of canon isn't THE definition. A community that only posted fics like you described would be a very lonely one.

Out of curiousity, do you honestly see Wilson as someone who would rape and beat his best friend (or anyone for that matter) on a regular basis or at all? Wilson can be manipulative and dishonest, but do you really think he's evil? If you think he's capable of things like this, why do you like him? Or if you don't, why do you write about him so much? The dark!Wilson to the extent that I've been able to read is not recognizable to me as Wilson at all. The man is not a sociopath. And do you further see House as someone who is willing to take all of this abuse without lifting a finger to help himself? I'm not attacking you, I'm genuinely curious. Honestly, I don't think Wilson is likely to do these things. I think under different circumstances, though, it would be possible for him to go in a darker direction than we've seen in canon. For me part of the fun of fanfic is to say, "Okay, so this character has been through these things in his life, he behaves this way, and this way, and this way... But what if this one thing was different? What if he lost control *here*? What if he gave in to his darker nature at this point?" i don't think wilson is evil, but the idea of a darker Wilson is still intriguing to me. I definitely have a thing for House hurt/comfort, and I think there's a lot more vulnerability to House's character than we've seen thus far spelled out in canon, and I like to do things in fic to bring that out. I personally think that House would be likely to do anything Wilson asked to win back his friendship following the incident with Amber, and it's an intriguing idea to think, "what if what wilson asks is too much? What if he takes it too far?" House has been a victim of abuse before, and under certain circumstances, that could make him vulnerable to being abused again. That's statistics for you, people who are abused as children are at risk of either abusing others, or being abused again in later relationships. Doesn't *always* happen, but it's common. I also think that wilson has an intrinsic darkness to him that's severely repressed. No, he's not evil. But anyone who tries *so hard* to be so very good, and Wilson clearly tries hard, is covering for some sort of darker nature they're trying to make up for, generally speaking. I'm by no means saying he's evil, etc, but i'm saying there are times when yeah, he'd prolly *love* to give House a good wallup for some of the things he says and does....I tend to explore the idea in fic of, "What if he stopped repressing and just did it?" I'm not saying this is the "perfect canon" wilson -- i'm just saying it's an interesting concept to explore, and i don't think anyone should necessarily have a problem with it if i want to explore it. Nobody's forcing them to read it.

AND since he allowed a cop to trip him into the exam room door and did NOT tell anyone about it, He still got his revenge for that. He didn't run off and cry about it. I do however think that it's perfectly in canon to portray Wilson as someone who doesn't always do the right thing (since we know he doesn't. He's said as much himself) and who doesn't always have other people's interests, but his own in mind. Nobody is arguing that Wilson's perfect. No one is saying that he always does the right thing. What is being argued is that somehow the fact that he's flawed in these ways translates to him being a horrible monster. He's not Wilson to me when I read him acting this way. When I read about him lying, cheating, or manipulating House in a fic, that's Wilson. It's not his best side, but it's still Wilson. There has never been anything to hint to me that an abusive rapist is who Wilson is or could be if he ever "snapped."

He still got his revenge for that. He didn't run off and cry about it. Have to disagree with you here, but only because of all the adult survivors of child abuse that I've counseled. His reaction was typical of this. A normal person who knows the difference between what is and isn't abusive behavior would have stood up for themselves, would have realized that what the other person did qualifies as assault. They would have left the exam room immediately. Tritter was a bully and once a person has been bullied it is VERY easy to do it again. House NEVER brought the incident up, not during the entire trial, and it definitely would have helped his case. Instead he passive-aggressively got quiet revenge. Also, him "getting revenge and not running off and crying about it" is kind of juvenile perspective. Why would you think that was the best way he could have handled it anyway? In the grown-up world, someone assaulting you is a crime and you deserve to be defended against it. Someone who has been abused questions whether or not they deserve the abuse and is reluctant to report it or defend themselves. His behavior was classic of an adult child abuse survivor -textbook even. That's not even going into House hiding from Volger in the exam room in season one. No, he's not afraid of anyone. *rolls eyes* Maybe it's obvious to me because of all the knowledge I have on the subject. As far as I'm concerned, House having the capacity to be a victim is canon. ANYONE having the capacity to be a victim is canon. Look how easily Tritter manipulated Chase in the cafeteria. If the concept of House being a victim weren't believable, The Contract wouldn't be so popular. Plenty of House weeping and being "weak" in that fic, AU or no.

However, we don't have any scenes of him being a weepy victim. I think it's canon that he was abused by his dad. That's still debatable now but will probably be established one way or the other this season. But knowing that he was abused doesn't mean that a weepy victim is lurking inside of him. I think it's worth noting that the *one time* we've seen House in tears during the entire show (actually two times, one ep) was over the impending falling out between him and wilson over amber's death. I think that the idea of losing Wilson would affect house in ways that might be unexpected. We've never seen it before in canon (though we're about to) but I think it's fair to speculate over how emotional/vulnerable/needy he might get in that situation. Also, anyone who's been abused stands the potential to be abused again unless they deal with it and break the cycle, and i really don't feel that house has ever really dealt with his childhood abuse. I think that given the right circumstances, it's believable that he could find himself in an abusive situation again. Huh? SPOILERS-- And I quote that portion to avoid repeating the spoilers :P hehe... but I'm not referring to the vague things you mentioned in your post, i'm referring to more specific spoilers, things said that to me indicate outright cruelty -- a deliberate attempt to hurt House. I don't want to get into detail here because I don't want to spoil anyone. And again, do you even like Wilson? You seem to have a pretty dim view of him. I *do* like Wilson, and I'll state again that I don't see wilson in general as a bad or evil character. I like good!wilson, too, not just dark!wilson. Anyone who's read both my current fics can point out how in one, wilson is dark as dark can be, but in the other he's a good, supportive friend to house who's trying his best to help him through an awful crisis. I don't like *only* dark!wilson, and i love the character to pieces... I just think it's fun to explore his darker side.

Jennifer -sorry I didn't mean to imply you were taking any specific position. I don't know who you are on LJ or FF. So I'm just talking to a screen name here. I'm really tired of this subject. I think we all are. I think we are all tired of waiting for the damn season to start and put us out of our misery. I tend to separate characters from their actions. We have to ask ourselves is the real House the one who tells Cuddy she'd be a lousy mom or the one who has a heart to heart with the 9 year old dying of cancer? The answer is both, because people are capable of being cruel and kind. Wilson is no different. Foreman is a great example of someone who is capable of being genuinely cruel and genuinely kind, depending on the situation. I this he's a fun character for that reason. Characters who are rigid in construction are boring and not someone I am likely to take an interest in to begin with. I believe that Wilson's words towards House in the upcoming season are cruel. I don't think he himself is a cruel person. I think he's angry and frustrated and his goal is to hurt House, because it makes sense to want to hurt someone that you think has hurt you. In his mind, when he does it, is SEEMS right and I can even understand how that might feel. I also think that 90 percent of the viewers are likely to share my general interpretation. I will be genuinely baffled by anyone who watches the first episode and tosses their fist in the air yelling "go Wilson!" I think people will be more likely to mourn the loss (however temporary) of something that we have all found beautiful in varying ways, over the last 4-5 years. I will continue to explore all of the potential plot lines that could result from this arc. I am eating it up like fricken candy. I've written things from several viewpoints. I've written things that made it seem that House owed Wilson an apology and vice versa. And you know what? I believe they are all canon. I wouldn't have written them so otherwise. I think anyone who DOES view House and Wilson in this rigid fashion is unlikely to find any fanfiction out there to enjoy. Good luck to them.

Instead he passive-aggressively got quiet revenge. Also, him "getting revenge and not running off and crying about it" is kind of juvenile perspective. Why would you think that was the best way he could have handled it anyway? There's no need to get so defensive and mean, now is there? I never said it was the best way to deal with it, yes it was passive-aggressive, but he did something about it. In what little dark!Wilson I've read, he does absolutely nothing about it, passive-aggressive or otherwise and I don't believe that of him. i'm referring to more specific spoilers, things said that to me indicate outright cruelty -- a deliberate attempt to hurt House. It doesn't even matter what you're referring to, I know all the spoilers and we're not going to agree because the only thing I see is Wilson (LAST SPOILER, --> I PROMISE) wanting to be left alone but House being unable to accept that. END. I think it's worth noting that the *one time* we've seen House in tears during the entire show (actually two times, one ep) was over the impending falling out between him and wilson over amber's death. Okay, then I think it's worth mentioning that the only time (two if you count his subconscious) that we've seen physical violence between House and Wilson, it's been House hitting Wilson and whacking him with his cane and then threatening to (nonverbally) again in MLC. This doesn't mean that I would by a fic where House is raping or abusing Wilson on a regular basis anymore than I buy a fic with Wilson doing it. It's just not them, IMHO. I'm sure some will interpret Wilson's actions as being "evil" but there's a big difference between being mean to House and trying to kill him. Thank you, that's all I'm trying to say. I mean, everyone is mean to someone at some point in their lives, that hardly means we're all about to go out and rape/beat/kill somebody. What if he gave in to his darker nature at this point?" Wilson's darker nature may have the urge to hit House once in a while, but rape him? I don't think so. I've never seen him with any desire to do so whatsoever, repressed or otherwise.

One of the philosophies of House the show and the character is that people don't change. That may be House's personal philosophy, but it's not necessarily true in real life. People do change throughout their lives, multiple times, based on the events that they go through. Every major event you go through changes you in some way, whether minor or profound. I just like to explore those changes. What would happen to this person -- how would he react -- if this thing were to happen? Being a sociopath/psychopath isn't part of Wilson's core nature. So making him into such turns him into a different character who isn't Wilson anymore. But the thing is, the harder a person tries to repress his anger, hurt, negative feelings - and we know that wilson has these kinds of feelings toward house because of lots of things over the years -- the more volatile it can be when these things eventually come out, and they almost always do at some point. I'm not saying Wilson at his core is a psychopath, but the more rage and hurt and all he's built up over the years, the more violent the eventual explosion might be. Is the reason that Wilson hasn't already raped/tried to kill/beat into submission/tormented/etc. House because he's repressing it or because that's not who Wilson is? Personally, I've never written Wilson raping House...I think I would find that difficult to make believable. I've seen it written believably, on several occasions, but I'm not sure *I* could pull it off. As for beating him, hitting him, etc, yeah, I could see Wilson doing that at some point given the right motivation. And in the wake of Amber's death, I could see him possibly even going so far as to the point of greater violence, just because often even good people react with a mindset of vengeance/justice when they feel that someone else has taken someone they loved from them, and is responsible for that person's death. I really don't feel one way or the other on whether or not he's *really* capable of these things. The point for me is the fun of exploring the *idea*. Is it possible? As a writer, can i create the scenario where it's believable? how far can these particular boundaries be pushed and still keep the characters intact, and make it a plausible plot?

There's no need to get so defensive and mean, now is there? I never said it was the best way to deal with it, yes it was passive-aggressive, but he did something about it. In what little dark!Wilson I've read, he does absolutely nothing about it, passive-aggressive or otherwise and I don't believe that of him. I'm laughing at how easily you attributed "meanness" to my words. It only further baffles me as to how you can interpret Wilson's behavior in the spoilers as you are -and you don't even know me. I'm not trying to be mean at all. I'm genuinely blown away. I think your explanation of his behavior in the spoilers is correct, but not complete. I agree that if IRL House was being abused he wouldn't stand for it, at least not more than once. In the fic I wrote where Wilson did rape House, well you'd have to read it to see how it went and the reaction from those who did was fairly unanimous that it was an accurate characterization -minus the fact that it was slash and that can't be considered canon, no matter how bad we want it. I am enjoying DOS's "Losing It" -but I do not consider it to be canon. I do NOT think that Wilson is capable of carrying on to that extent for that amount of time, nor do I think House would tolerate it more than once. I can see House letting Wilson take a swing at him, actually thinking it might help him to get it out of his system. I seriously doubt it would go any further. But like I told DOS when I read the first chapter, the story is OOC, but it's well written and an intriguing idea. I find myself wanting to continue. But I'm not easily bothered by people who portray the characters differently than I would. There is some Dark!Wilson that bothers me too. To me, the extent of Wilson's darkness is just having some rather cruel intentions in the wake of Amber's death. This is limited to words spoken, thoughts he might have and perhaps a desire to physically separate himself from House. I don't have him committing acts of violence or murder. I will read some of the drabbles written by my friends that run along this theme, because they read my work and comment and I think that's the polite thing to do.

Really, is it so wrong to write a character somewhat different from canon? "Canon" is not a fixed thing, anyway, everyone views it somewhat differently. To me, the things that make a character recognizable are things like dialogue/voice, mannerisms, reactions, etc. I think it's possible to write a somewhat darker (or fluffier) version of a character without having it be genuinely OOC. Personally, I like sweet, fluffy teddy bear Wilson. I like sneaky, manipulative, cheating-bastard Wilson. I also like dark, scary, dominating Wilson. I think it should be perfectly fine to explore any area along this spectrum that I want to, without being told that that's not the "right" way to do it. I know that there are some people who enjoy the things I write -- which aren't all dark!wilson, BTW -- and *I* enjoy it, and I know that there are some people who wouldn't touch my stories with a ten foot pole. :P LOL What I don't understand is why that has to be a problem for anyone. For me, the bottom line is, if you don't enjoy someone else's perspective on a character, or their fic, you don't have to read it. If you do, any writer would be glad to have the feedback. But there's something for everyone in the fandom, and I don't see why it has to turn into a battle.

I find this discussion of what is in character and not in character for Wilson to be fascinating, and I feel that all the posters make good points. I also doubt there will ever be any agreement, especially because nowhere in ANY fandom have I seen blanket agreement about any one character. Doesn’t mean the lively discussion isn’t fun to read, though. To go back to the original proposal that triggered this discussion, the one where someone suggested that DarkWilson stories don’t really belong in the House-Wilson com due to “perceived OOC-ness”, I think the important thing to remember is the difference between fanfic archives open to public posting and (back in the old days, at least) published fan journals that selected fics based on the editorial staff standards. A limited, restricted journal can set whatever rules they want: type of characterization, grammar, punctuation, slash only, no slash, etc. Public archives tend to be much less judgmental and have a wider range of talent, and so, at times, it’s true that quality suffers. However, the chance for rank beginners to rub elbows with established "old-time" talent (and sometimes wow the readers with their previously "unknown" skills) make public archives attractive to most readers and writers. I have to agree with fffaw, chipmunk, dreamofspike, and the rest when they advocate that there should not be characterization restrictions (aka OOC in some people’s opinions) on House/Wilson fics, (or in my opinion, on Chase fics or Cameron/Thirteen fics, ANY fics, really). I’m going to bring up the dreaded “slippery slope” argument. To repeat the arguments, who has the right to decide what is too “OOC” to allow on the H_W archive? If the “OOC” judges are allowed to discount DarkWilson, then wouldn’t it be equally fair to discount slash as well? How about too much emo in hurt/comfort fics? Improper use of commas? Overuse of fandom clichés (aka clattering canes, clicking heels, and macadamia nuts continuously bursting out of pancakes)? Once you say that “such and so can’t play in this sandbox unless we agree with everything they do”, you open the door to allowing only a very select few in that sandbox. Then the sandbox becomes boring to people like me, who are sometimes pleasantly surprised by reading something wonderful in a genre we previously didn’t care for. Sorry if this is slightly off the turn this topic has taken; I am a dreadfully slow typist. :P

I'm laughing at how easily you attributed "meanness" to my words. And I suppose this shouldn't be considered mean, either? It only further baffles me as to how you can interpret Wilson's behavior in the spoilers as you are -and you don't even know me. I'm not trying to be mean at all. I'm genuinely blown away. I think your explanation of his behavior in the spoilers is correct, but not complete. Who said anything about knowing you? You came off as rude and condescending and you still are and if that wasn't your intention and it isn't now, then just drop it. As for the spoilers, I'll elaborate, I don't think (SORRY, I KNOW I PROMISED, SPOILERS-->)that Wilson's goal is to hurt House. I find the suggestion that the only reason that Wilson's doing any of this is simply to hurt House to be ridiculous and it completely simplifies the entire situation (I know you didn't say that but it's the theory of a lot of people) but I also don't think he's going out of his way not to hurt House. I don't think he's trying to protect and spare his feelings, but I think his main motivation is to get away and if House gets hurt, so what? END.

Once you say that “such and so can’t play in this sandbox unless we agree with everything they do”, you open the door to allowing only a very select few in that sandbox. Thank you soooooo much!! That is precisely my point!! Isn't there enough room for everybody without getting judgmental of the things other people like? I think there should be, and I don't think anyone should get judged for liking something that's different from what others might like.