I have such envy for people who have a regular beta(s). I've used a few people. A couple were quite good but I felt like I was imposing. I do so hate to be a bother. More than once I've had people volunteer to beta a story and I waited for over a week before sending a follow-up note and never got a response one way or the other. For all I know they took it and posted it somewhere else like it was their story. I'm trying to imagine how you would phrase that request exactly - gee you have shared your kinky Mary Sue longings to shag House and I'm just wondering if I could take the piss out of your fantasies? Maybe if you said: Your story has inspired me, mind if I add a commentary to go with the narrative? Then laugh all the way to the MST.

not much work to do there. And speaking of that: have you fixed those typos Troops? (It's not too bad - there were only two). No, I am waiting till I hear back from wih. She is brutal when it comes to the grammar and priority is good for storyline, so take all three out at once.

RSH maybe you should do what we do. We have a little email group of like minded writers and if someone writes something and wants feedback or betaing they just send it and see what comes back - as Troops said, this can range from anything to story ideas, typos or plot points - or just 'well done', And it shares the load around if RL gets in the way.

Well, when asking permission to MST, I believe I said something along the lines of, "This story has some interesting ideas and great potential, but there are some aspects to it that somewhat strain credulity. Would you mind if I MSTed it? You could read it when I'm done, and you would have veto power over whether or not I posted it."

I got into to doing beta (or first reader as Kidsnurse calls it) because I was asked by Kidsnurse to look over one of her stories when someone else pulled out in the middle of her writing it. I'd been commenting for awhile on the story and just continued doing that except now it's in advance of her posting it. I've got my doubts sometimes about the value of those comments, seems like I just state the obvious, but that's another issue. Was told in no uncertain terms that "it's not obvious" so just shut up and comment (I've still got my doubts though). I don't do this with fanfic except her and once or twice for other writers when I've been asked. My regular proofreading/rewriting is for a quarterly journal a friend edits. I usually have somewhere between 14-18 articles to read/rewrite etc. over a 24-48 hour period every quarter. Turnaround isn't normally a problem since I'm used to reading that stuff and responding via email in a short time because of the deadline to send this thing to the printer.

Positive feedback: There is a difference between commenting and betaing, in my opinion. If I'm commenting on a fic, and I want to add some constructive criticism, I would definitely use the P-N-P format. Some people also use the format of positive first in regular type, and then crit in small type. For betaing, I want other people to look bit by bit, line by line, and tell me both what works and what doesn't. Even if 20 positive comments come in on a fic, they usually don't specify what particular lines or sections were particularly good. Daisylily is great in providing specifics in betaing that let me know where I've gone wrong and what is working. (Plus, I'm human and selfish, and I like getting pats on the back if something works well.) MSTs: The intent of MSTs for me is to have a laugh and roll my eyes at bad WRITING, not to criticize people. Even professional writers have some doozies. There are several scenes in the Vogler arc on the show, for example, that are begging for MST - howlers, really.

The best process I've found for betaing is googledocs. You write the story and invite in your betas to be editors. You can all edit in real time, and discuss the changes as they're made. That's fine-tuning stuff, though. For me, the most valuable thing a beta can do is ask questions. "Why did House do that?" "Are you sure this line worked?" "What are you trying to accomplish in this scene?" It often sets me back on my heels and I have to think about it. There aren't any right or wrong answers, but the writer should know what the answers are; that way they can write the scene more powerfully, because they know what effect it's supposed to have on the readers. The best questions are about why a character would do something--gets me back to my characterization every time, and the story's always stronger for it.

Zulu wrote: Well, when asking permission to MST, I believe I said something along the lines of, "This story has some interesting ideas and great potential, but there are some aspects to it that somewhat strain credulity. Would you mind if I MSTed it? You could read it when I'm done, and you would have veto power over whether or not I posted it." Wow, I'm surprised that works. What ratio of "OK, go aheads" to "Piss offs" do you get? I cannot imagine being anything other than appalled if someone wrote to ask if they could MST one of my stories (unless it was a friend doing an "MST something you like but House and Co. would hate" challenge, sort of like Sheep's self-MST). I've done some MSTs and tell myself it's OK because chances are the person who wrote the story will never see it...I recently read an MST of a story by someone I know, and I worry about that person finding out.

Well, I haven't tried it that often; and only on people I think might react well to it. Anyway, it worked. *shrugs* I think any story that merits that much attention is doing *something* right, and if you learn from the process, then all the better. S'why my fics are always up for MSTing or reader commentary or whathaveyou. Teaches me a lot.

Hey Radiosweetheart. About that "beta" problem, I've taken to doing what Nightdog does. That is, I have a list of friends on LJ who I trust to look at my stuff and talk to me about what is and is not working for them. And to ask me questions -- which are, as someone else just pointed out, incredibly useful. That way, I'm not relying on one person for beta work. I'll post something under friends-lock for my trusted crew and let them have at it. The result is always a better story, and there is always at least one person who has the time and mental energy to give me. Also, I'm learning a lot from them, collectively.

No, I am waiting till I hear back from wih. She is brutal when it comes to the grammar and priority is good for storyline, so take all three out at once. hehe - sorry I was away for a couple days. But I did it now, so you can read it over. And: If you think I'm brutal when it comes to grammar you should see t_eyla's beta-ing. She really takes the axe when something isn't right! But I think it's a good thing, 'cause this way, at least most of the mistakes get straightened out and people won't sit in front of the fic going 'Oh noes, not another one...' . :-) About MSTs. I like doing them. If it's a really bad fic, I don't tell the author and I just make fun of it. If it's a fic of a friend, I usually tell them about it and ask if it's alright before posting.

Hey, guys, quick question--not sure if this is the place for it--but I'm looking for alternative drugs House may have tried after the infarction--the ones that didn't work, before the Vicodin. I know there was some discussion of this in season three, and if anyone knows the episode so I can read the transcript, that'd be cool.

Zulu, I don't remember the name of the episode, but I do remember one of the drugs he had tried was gabapentin (aka Neurontin).

Awesome, thanks. Anyone else get to the medical bits of fics and just write "BLAH BLAH SOME DRUG" in place of the stuff you don't know--for easy findsearching and replacing when you've got the answer?

zulu, no, but it drives me nuts when people do ;D (You might try over at house_canon too, they tend to know this kind of stuff).