Time is Not a Fixed Construct: The Timeline Thread

AP courses were first offered in Canada 10 years ago in '98 and even now only 15 high schools in the country offer AP credit courses. (I think more offer International Baccelaureat courses than AP.) McGill does accept AP credits but I don't know if they did 20 years ago when Wilson was there since no Canadian schools had them back then. It's possible that Wilson did his four year undergrad degree in three but McGill is like the Harvard of Canadian universities, it's hard enough that to do it three and get high enough marks to get into med school would require both exceptional brains and summer courses. Oncology would be Wilson's residency or fellowship depending on the medical school (different schools label them as residency or fellowship). That would leave Penn State as the best guess to be his medical school then. They had to revamp the ages for some of the characters when JS was cast as Chase (10 years younger), OE as Foreman (4 years older) and HL as House (8 years older). It doesn't look like the ages for Wilson, Cuddy or Cameron were changed unless Wilson was made several years older to be House's contemporary (in which case the Hector timeline would work). We know Cuddy had at least heard of House at Michigan when she was an undergrad and he was in med school (no canon statement that they had actually met) and so she knew of him at least even though she's younger than he is. But if Wilson is 8 - 10 years younger than House, how would they have known each other 18 years ago well enough for Bonnie to resent House that much enough to name Hector after him? Wilson would have been an undergraduate at McGill or starting med school at Penn State or Columbia and House would have been at Hopkins or Michigan. Even if they had met somehow, why would they have become such good friends back then? For me, it makes sense that House got to PPTH, met Wilson, and they become best friends with their spouses at that point. Or at least Stacy became Wilson's friend, I doubt Julie has much love for House since she didn't want him after they split up (Forever). Still it’s not a question of it being unusual but it isn’t the norm and this is three marriages and three divorces by 40. I meant in academic circles. My college friends have all had stable marriages for 20+ years. Some academics I know seem to discard families as they move to new universities. I don't think it's so much a question of being not the norm so much as an indication of something dysfunctional in him. Cameron marrying a man who was going to die is supposed to be an indication of something wrong with her (or so House says); Wilson going through 3 marriages by the time he's 40 is also supposed to suggestion something wrong with him, I think. Because needy women don’t necessarily grow on trees. And even Wilson can use some recoup time. We saw Wilson trying to make the new nurse feel better in Fidelity and being a shoulder for a nurse to cry on in Need to Communicate. He went from splitting up with Julie in Clueless to getting together with Grace in House vs God and by Act Your Age he was trying to make Cuddy's life happier by taking her out to a play, and in DEC he was with Amber. And that's with him making a real effort to keep out of bad relationships. Wilson appears to be a magnet for women who need him.

(shrug) My problem with Wilson getting through school quickly because he was an overachiever is that Cuddy, who is MORE of an overachiever, didn't. Not true. Cuddy said she graduated from med school at 25. Med school is 4 years. So she either graduated high school one year early (by skipping a grade at some point) or got through college in 3 years instead of 4. Yes. Plus they could be different kind of overachievers. Or have different things driving them. Whereas Cuddy's may have been more about ambition and proving herself. I think Wilson's may have been more solace perhaps from an unhappy family situation and the need to please. It's not canon but I'd bet that S3 was the longest dry spell in his adult life - more evidence of depression. I don't share that point of view. I’ve never really bought House’s early take on Wilson and women and I think that was ultimately shown to be false. YMMV. Again House said the "You love all the women that were your wives even the ones that weren’t your wives." when he was unhappy about Wilson showing what House felt was inappropriate attention to a woman. You know when House was jealous. I don't think Wilson flits from person to person or has had a lot of romances. If he couldn't bring himself to buy the water bed he had wanted all those years, not even during the many times he was between marriages, because he didn’t want to act on a whim I don’t see him getting casually involved with a person romantically. He would be even more cautious about that, although based on his marriage record not cautious enough. We know that once he does get heavily/intimately involved it seems to lead directly to marriage. I see him as someone who will sit on the shelf or in a hotel room until someone that he clicks with somehow approaches him or crosses his path. Bonnie, Julie, Grace, Amber, even or especially House. As for post Julie S3/4 between the short unfortunate affair with Grace and then Amber it wasn't much of a dry spell. I saw his getting involved with Grace as more a sign of his depression (since it was reckless and inappropriate) than his not dating (considering his 3rd marriage had failed) during that time. It's seems clear that when he does meet a person that really touches him, not just somebody he can help momentarily, he gets involved very quickly and deeply, for better or worse. The rest of the time I think he’s just waiting. Partly because I’m not sure he’s always or ever known what he really wanted. Or if he has known he’s been afraid to act on it. Wilson appears to be a magnet for women who need him. True Wilson is receptive to being there for people. But he doesn't marry or have affairs with all of them. For some he can just go to lunch, or have coffee, or see a play and take in a museum. But if Wilson is 8 - 10 years younger than House, how would they have known each other 18 years ago well enough for Bonnie to resent House that much enough to name Hector after him? Wilson would have been an undergraduate at McGill or starting med school at Penn State or Columbia and House would have been at Hopkins or Michigan. If we say that Wilson was 38 in season 1 (I’ll go with that for now I don’t think he could be any older but I still think he could have been as young as 35) and House was 45 then in S5 they are approximately 42 and 49 respectively (7years apart). They met 20 years ago (allowing for Wilson’s marriage to Bonnie about 16 years ago and a marriage to #1 a couple of years before that). Wilson was 22 and House 29. House would not have been at Michigan or Hopkins at that point. Wilson was either finishing undergraduate at McGill or in Med school, wherever. (Hey, maybe Wilson did UG and Med all at McGill. That's why he's got just the one sweatshirt :wink: ). House was in either of those places doing residency or fellowships or some other academic/medical work and the love affair begins. :biggrin: Even if they had met somehow, why would they have become such good friends back then? Why not? Because of an age difference? I've dated people 7 - 10 years older than me. And I've developed close friendships with people even many more years older than that. Working together, volunteering and at school. For me, it makes sense that House got to PPTH, met Wilson, and they become best friends with their spouses at that point. Canon just doesn't support that. Bonnie and Wilson met in Boston seemingly pre-PPTH, Wife #1 would obviously been before that and both House and Wilson have said on different occasions that House was around for all of Wilson's marriages. YMMV. I don't think it's so much a question of being not the norm so much as an indication of something dysfunctional in him. Cameron marrying a man who was going to die is supposed to be an indication of something wrong with her (or so House says); Wilson going through 3 marriages by the time he's 40 is also supposed to suggestion something wrong with him, I think Agreed that is what some of us, me anyway :) , were trying to say earlier. Anything further on Wilson outside of the timeline should probably move to his thread. We're going to drive the poor Mods nuts. :oops:

What a relief to get up this morning and find filey has already said everything I would have said :D I have a plea, for Ariadne or anyone else; is this pilot script page lurking anywhere on the interweb, & if not could anybody email me a scan? I take my H/W timeline far too seriously and am currently working on revising it (based on comments since I last did it and, uh, other information: I'll post it in a couple of months time). I'm loathe to cite a quote from a script with no source as evidence for anything.

House said he has met Wilson parents and brother. He doesn’t say he knows them or that he frequented family gatherings. Based on what we have seen of both House and Wilson the past four years they do not spend a lot of, or any, time in the bosom of their families. Also just because LLB didn't disappear for good until 9 years ago in S1 (so 12 years ago S4) LLB could have been out of the home and the family for years before he finally went away or lose touch. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was not a topic that came up even by accident at whatever times House was in the presence of the Wilson clan. Families can be amazingly good at keeping secrets and burying the past especially if the incidents are painful and the family has had lots of practice. The suggestion in Histories of H/W knowing each other 8 years or so got thrown out when it was specifically stated in S3 that House has know Wilson through all three marriages and that W/B (#2) had married @ 16 years early. And that's specifically why I said you either have to fanwank issues of the LLB or fanwank that Bonnie's a ditz. Some people obviously prefer the LLB fanwank. I prefer the Bonnie fanwank. Until there's a conclusive statement like: "In the 20 years I've known you ..." I think both sides will continue to fanwank their preference. I'm not saying that the Hector timeline people are wrong or that the LLB timeline people are wrong. I'm just saying that arguments can be made on either side.

We know Cuddy had at least heard of House at Michigan when she was an undergrad and he was in med school (no canon statement that they had actually met) Let me stop you right there for two seconds. In Humpty Dumpty, the conversation went like this: Cam: You both went to Michigan. You know him while you were there? Cuddy: Uh... I was still an undergrad, but yeah, I knew him. He was already a legend. Cam: So you just knew him as a legend. Cuddy: My god, you're subtle. Anything on your mind? If Cuddy had just known of House had Michigan, she would have said so. Therefore, it's canon-approved to assume that they actually knew each other while in Ann Arbor. And yes to Namaste. Sometimes I think the writers throw random lengths of time into their scripts without actually realizing how much it's going to screw with our minds. :lol:

I think the tptb need to hire a timeline specialist. Holy smokes, I never thought one question would lead to such a debate. I honestly didn't know there was this big divide between the two views. Chippers I've always wondered if she meant he was a legend on a global scale or a personal one. Probably global, but I choose to live in my belief that it was a personal one.

And that's specifically why I said you either have to fanwank issues of the LLB or fanwank that Bonnie's a ditz. Some people obviously prefer the LLB fanwank. I prefer the Bonnie fanwank. Until there's a conclusive statement like: "In the 20 years I've known you ..." I think both sides will continue to fanwank their preference. I'm not saying that the Hector timeline people are wrong or that the LLB timeline people are wrong. I'm just saying that arguments can be made on either side. Not really. There is no fanwank involved in the Hector time line at all. You can take everything said about the dates and occurences in both LLB and Hector and they work fine in the Hector version. We know that House was unaware that Wilson had a second brother who was living on the streets. For how long he was on the streets or the fact that Wilson last saw him (now) 12 years ago has no bearing at all on when H/W met. As LightMyCandle said when we were back in the Q&A thread. I don't see why House would need to even suspect some deep, dark, Wilson family secret. Just because the last time Wilson saw his brother was nine years before Histories, does not mean he was any kind of a permanent fixture in his life before that. That’s the reason House is so surprised. Wilson never told him and House had no hint of another brother. Histories was House's very first hint and he pounced on it. Whether they knew each for 8, 10 or 20 years Wilson never indicated anything and House had no reason to suspect. If you accept that Wilson kept the secret for at least 9 years I don’t see why it’s unacceptable that he kept it for maybe 20 years. A secret kept is a secret kept and after the first decade it’s a breeze... :wink: Wilson says specifically that Hector is 17 years old. Bonnie says specifically he was a puppy when they got him on their honeymoon. Whether dear H was 1, 2 or 3 years old, Bonnie and Wilson married somewhere between 17 – 15 years ago. Still pre-dating that last time Wilson saw his brother by at least three years but probably closer to 5 years. Wilson was married once before Bonnie so at least another 1 or 2 years minimum gets added to when House knew Wilson. You keep all the info & dates in LLB and the Hector time line works, nothing has to be discarded. You just can’t add anything about what House would, could, should have known about what he and Wilson say he didn’t. The fanwank in the LLB version is that everything Wilson, Bonnie and House have said about how long ago they knew each other and when Bonnie and Wilson met and married is wrong. That it needs to be disregarded because it doesn’t fit previous assumptions (ones that I shared). Why would that be? We had infomation (LLB) and two years later we were given additonal information (Hector & Bonnie) that elaborated & clarified. Of course that doesn’t mean it isn’t still YMMV and may TPTB resolve this sooner rather than later. Preferably with photo, time stamped and notarized. Maybe of H/W standing in the middle of a Dukakis/Benson rally. :o If Cuddy had just known of House had Michigan, she would have said so. Therefore, it's canon-approved to assume that they actually knew each other while in Ann Arbor. Yes but she may have just been reacting to Cam’s brazen curiosity, House crush and that regardless it was none of her business. It could be seen either way. I agree it was meant that they knew each other. DS seems to think they did know each other and likely sleep together back then. You know, when someone jogs his memory. :roll:

Chippers I've always wondered if she meant he was a legend on a global scale or a personal one. Probably global, but I choose to live in my belief that it was a personal one. I don't think it'd be too far off to say that it was both. While I don't necessarily agree with the characterization that a lot of fic writers give college!House -- big ladies' man on campus -- I think that he would garner a lot of attention for his work and for his attitude. But, for Cuddy personally, I don't know that she would let House get away with so much if she wasn't very familiar with the goals that he was trying to accomplish and the points that he was trying to make. There are a lot of doctors who admire House's work, but we've also been made to believe by TPTB that there is only one doctor/administrator who can see the bigger picture when it comes to House's behavior, and that's Cuddy. That intuition about him was most likely established while observing or working with him at Michigan. Perhaps that's YMMV.

I agree, should have added that by global, I meant for his genius, not necessarailly for his status as a ladies' man. Okay, I have absolutely no idea what YMMV is (don't laugh). :oops: I knew that's what you meant, I just wanted to add that because if I read another fic talking about how House did every girl on campus, I'm going to go insane. :roll: :lol: (YMMV means "Your mileage may vary." Basically saying you may see this differently. It's okay :smile:)

There is no fanwank involved in the Hector time line at all. You can take everything said about the dates and occurences in both LLB and Hector and they work fine in the Hector version. We know that House was unaware that Wilson had a second brother who was living on the streets. For how long he was on the streets or the fact that Wilson last saw him (now) 12 years ago has no bearing at all on when H/W met. But that is fanwanking -- to say that House, who is so obsessive about people that he even tracks Cuddy's periods somehow blithely ignores a key element of Wilson during a time when his brother was in touch and does so not just for months but years ... to me that simply doesn't compute. It may work for you. It may make complete sense to Hector believers, but it doesn't make sense to me. So Hector believers fanwank by saying: "LLB just wasn't in touch." I fanwank by saying: "Bonnie's a ditz who referred to a five-year-old dog as a puppy." Either requires a suspension of disbelief. Also, I don't buy that writers intentionally referred to Hector as a puppy in one story and as 17 in another episode specifically to show how long House and Wilson have known each other. Mainly because in the behind-the-scenes article on the filming of "Family", David Shore and company went on and on about finding an old dog not because he was to be indicative of the length of time House and Wilson knew each other, but because they wanted an old broken down dog to be a mirror to the broken down House. Y'all can believe whatever timeline you wish to believe. Just don't tell me that I have to believe in it as well, until there's conclusive proof. That's all I ask. I simply believe that it is way too convoluted to nail specific dates to a wall.

View Full Version: Time is Not a Fixed Construct: The Timeline Thread