Season 5 General Discussion

Actually, I did in fact like Lucky 13, and I liked 13 in it and how she was used in that episode, and also in DCE. In both of those episodes, 13 had a lot of screen time, both her screen time and story had to to with the POTW. That is fine with me, and I am not complaining about that. I like the POTW in Lucky 13, and I liked her scenes with 13, and I did like House relating to both 13 and the POTW in that episode. Despite his obnoxious comments, it was cool that he actually wanted 13 to have some sort of a relationship with her. That is how Cameron and Chase and Foreman were used in S1-3. Anything we ever learned about their own lives was through the POTW. Then the rest of the show was spent on House, and what was going on with him. The problem with the use of 13 is that she has been getting all this screen time away from the POTW and House. That is what bugs me, Lucky 13 and DCE were great eps, because of the other storylines in them and because her story was within the traditional House framework. I don't want 13 to have more time with House, I wish she would get much less time, and then only in relation to the POTW. But the big problem with 13 in LTEC and JTTW is that in these episode s13 and OW had lots of screen time of her own, away from the POTW and House. I don't care about 13, and I wish that time would have been used for House/Wilson/Cuddy instead.

any supporting character who gets a major arc will have the plot get the accusation of contrived because it's not where those particular fans want the plot to be. The powers that be cannot win on that score. This is very true. And we are back to that discussion about how each one of us watch the show and which expectation is fulfilled. There will be always frustrations. Yet, the idea that some fans like or dislike a particular story because it fails to follow some kind of agenda they were supposed to have for the show, it's a little unfair and a generalization. I'm quite sure I'm still able to discern about a good story and a bad one - whether my favorite character was involved or not. I wasn't trying to imply that there wasn't gaps in the previous arcs, just that those gaps did not usually affect so deeply the behaviour of the characters we already know. Lately, I felt like I was being reintroduced to a new show - something that other fans may already have felt at the beginning of s4 - with a lot of new dynamics that I'm not really finding all that interesting or compelling. I may not have any power to change this path and, ultimately, it's my decision to keep watching or not, but this also doesn't mean that I can't have some complaints about the show and express them. The silly baby plot didn't do a lot for me, but only because of the specifics of it. That's exactly the specifics that made the plot contrived - for me! I'm one of the fans who hated 'The Crush', but I didn't think it was contrived. That storyline was perfectly fitting with Cam's personality and the kind of dynamic that, later, was established between Cameron and House (IMO). I may not have liked whom Cameron was, but she was still Cameron and even with her mood swings in s3, she was still the same character that used to annoy me - she still is, and it's kind of comforting, go figure... Unfortunately, I can't say the same about Cuddy. They undermined her character so much that I can't bring myself to have any kind of respect or interest about her. Sure MMV...

But for me, the Cameron crush and the Tritter arc were a different experience. I really had to grapple with how to continue with the show after Wilson simply shifted into his old role with House when he had walked out on him during an OD. I thought the writers pushed the angst to the max but then had no intention of making the actions believable or continuing. And that was after pretty much ignoring Wilson's actions during Meaning as generating any impact on House. And then of course there's the DBS--and we all know to run from that discussion! Because to me, I had yet another gap I had to jump over to see how Wilson went from risking House's life to saying that was his biggest fear. And I know you had a very different experience of that. I also thought Cameron was written all over the place season one to three, changing hugely from ep to ep, and never having any of her negative traits (were we supposed to see them as negative traits?) actually impact her. I didn't think she was a well written or consistent character. Again, different experience. As with Cuddy. I had no problem with how the arc developed once it was over. I bought the kiss, the dance around admitting it might have meant something by both parties, Cuddy being as inept as House at bringing things to the fore, House really screwing up, Cuddy backing off and House realising that he'd made as big a change by his refusal as he would have by his acceptance. I really loved Joy and thought Lisa Edelstein did a marvelous job. The only sticky point for me was the silliness of the crack house scene, but that didn't negate the whole arc. I thought Wilson resuming writing prescriptions after MLC affected that arc much more on the believability front. I don't think either one of us is wrong in which arc ticked us off the most.

But for me, the Cameron crush and the Tritter arc were a different experience. I really had to grapple with how to continue with the show after Wilson simply shifted into his old role with House when he had walked out on him during an OD. I thought the writers pushed the angst to the max but then had no intention of making the actions believable or continuing. And that was after pretty much ignoring Wilson's actions during Meaning as generating any impact on House. And then of course there's the DBS--and we all know to run from that discussion! Because to me, I had yet another gap I had to jump over to see how Wilson went from risking House's life to saying that was his biggest fear. And I know you had a very different experience of that. I also thought Cameron was written all over the place season one to three, changing hugely from ep to ep, and never having any of her negative traits (were we supposed to see them as negative traits?) actually impact her. I didn't think she was a well written or consistent character. Again, different experience. As with Cuddy. I had no problem with how the arc developed once it was over. I bought the kiss, the dance around admitting it might have meant something by both parties, Cuddy being as inept as House at bringing things to the fore, House really screwing up, Cuddy backing off and House realising that he'd made as big a change by his refusal as he would have by his acceptance. I really loved Joy and thought Lisa Edelstein did a marvelous job. The only sticky point for me was the silliness of the crack house scene, but that didn't negate the whole arc. I thought Wilson resuming writing prescriptions after MLC affected that arc much more on the believability front. I don't think either one of us is wrong in which arc ticked us off the most. Wow. This is amazing. I just posted at the Bitterness thread, and I cut out a whole paragraph of ranting at the inconsistencies in characterization and how they hurt the show. It bugs me no end, that line about Wilson leaving because he was afraid of losing House. It might sound nice, but it absolutely flies in the face of what we saw in the previous episode. Wilson's words in DCE had the ring of truth based on WH, and their history in general. That would be the more natural reaction in his circumstances. What they came up with in Birthmarks was just beyond belief to me, and yet everyone seemed to love it. If they want me to take this friendship seriously, it has to have some psychological truth, and I don't find that when life-changing events or devastating words are glossed over in subsequent episodes. The show would be so much better if they would address the situations they set up. But, they need to have Wilson and House be pranking buddies, so neither one ever has to suffer the consequences of what they do to each other (and it is a two-way street). With House/Cuddy, the ideas might be OK, but the execution failed for me. The kiss looked weird - I don't want to see any more overt romance scenes on the show- and as for the aftermath, I find it not at all amusing or believable or interesting for them to behave in such a silly way. They have chemistry when confronting each other as adult equals, not so much when taking it to the kindergarten level. Is it that hard to write a sophisticated romance subplot?

And it still seems to me that just a scan of this page shows that very different things bug different people and what seems contrived to one viewer is excellent writing to another. The writers are not going to win reading online forums and trying to please the various sets of posters. Um, except featuring House. That one I think is a uniting principle. No ensemble. Is it that hard to write a sophisticated romance subplot? I had a much more positive experience of the arc than you did--I thought the kiss was wonderful, very layered with many emotions--but I can still understand your point. I think the problem is that the writers have no intention of pairing House off with any main cast member any time soon, if at all, so they cannot take anything too deep or get in too far, because the relationship has to reset. Stacy was different because they started that one in the middle and had an end point in mind and Stacy wasn't staying. So they could have House get serious and connect with her, and they could have him reject her and mean it. I would have loved to have seen more this arc where House shows his sweet side to Cuddy, because we know he has one. But the most the writers would do was the desk, which didn't have a lot of emotional impact because we really just heard about for a second before it was undercut. But if they had actually had some real connection, they would have been commiting to this being a romantic arc House cares about, and I suspect many many Wilson and Cameron shippers would have been even more outraged, not less, at the idea that there is a canon romance between House and Cuddy. Given the real difficulties, I liked that the arc ended with Cuddy pulled back and House looking to me that he cared more than he let on but accepting where Cuddy is. The House writers may not be naturals at writing romance, but you have to admit they're playing to a tough crowd on that front.

am i the only one feeling disappointed with the current season?? :(

am i the only one feeling disappointed with the current season?? :( I'd check the bitterness thread, if I were you. Or, perhaps, a lot of the last few posts in this thread.

Am I the only one feeling disappointed with the current season?? Sure you're not. But you'll have more company in the Bitterness thread... :wink: I don't think either one of us is wrong in which arc ticked us off the most Yes! That's why generalizations - in general - tick me off! :D A storyline can be upsetting for some and wonderful to others - it doesn't need to be only because one character or another are being pushed into the background. I can defend a lot of points in the Crush - even if I hated it - and in the Tritter arc - even if I was disappointed with some 'resolutions'. I might have bought the H/Cy storyline if I didn't feel that they botched it with silly, over dramatic and forced, plot devices. But I'm perfectly aware that a lot of fans are loving it. Different expectations, different reactions. Is it that hard to write a sophisticated romance subplot? I find hard to believe that among so many writers for the show, none of them was able to do it in a proper way. Which makes me think that the problem may be that House - the show - is not about romance. House may be a romantic, tormented, hero - I have some doubts about this, but this is not my point - but romance is not their main focus. His inability to interact with people in general, his distrust, his cynic, cruel, side, his self-centered POV and how the others are able or not to reach him are what the show is about. I always found House to be a very un-romantic show, and it really surprises me sometimes, how many people are expecting to see some kind of tradicional love story in the show. Maybe this is why the H/W relationship seems so much more 'natural' and intriguing for some fans. A fairy-tale romance would never happen between them - but this is the most close relationship that is capable to present us what lies beneath all that grumpy exterior, whether some may choose to see it as just a very close friendship, or more. Maybe the story they are telling us is not about romance, but about how valuable is to have a friend.

I find hard to believe that among so many writers for the show, none of them was able to do it in a proper way. Which makes me think that the problem may be that House - the show - is not about romance. House may be a romantic, tormented, hero - I have some doubts about this, but this is not my point - but romance is not their main focus. His inability to interact with people in general, his distrust, his cynic, cruel, side, his self-centered POV and how the others are able or not to reach him are what the show is about. I always found House to be a very un-romantic show, and it really surprises me sometimes, how many people are expecting to see some kind of tradicional love story in the show. I agree, and that's precisely what makes most of the arcs they embark on utterly pointless. Most people expect something at the end of the tunnel,look at the House/Wilson/Amber arc (and just to clarify I consider S4(Frozen) to S5(Birthmarks) one arc) ... I expected something, anything, to come out of it. I dont mean that woo House should have changed in some way or anything, but House/Wilson should have. They always do these stories at the end of which there's an ultimatum for House then five minutes later everything gets resolved in some absurd way that leaves (me at least) going ... Wow is that it? It's like there's a dilemma there for 10 episodes, and on the 11th episode I dunno Elvis shows up and the dilemma is gone. As to the romance ... I do agree that a "romance" of the lets go to the movies, eat popcorn, get married, have 2.4 children in our white picket fenced house wouldnt suit the character. But there a big difference from that to he's self centered aka alone ... personally I think that House being who he is trying to make a relationship work would be a far more interesting arc than I dunno blank stare 13 dying and Cuddy on diaper duty. But it is also a lot more difficult to write :)

Which makes me think that the problem may be that House - the show - is not about romance. House may be a romantic, tormented, hero - I have some doubts about this, but this is not my point - but romance is not their main focus. On this we agree! I have never thought House was a romance, ever. I don't believe there is any OTP. He has had romantic feelings and may again, but they're not the focus of the story. Wilson's friendship I think is more of a focus, but even so, not to the point that an exploration of it dominates every arc. I think House's interactions with the world in all his various ways is the point. That's why watching for one pairing only is going to be a frustrating experience as well as a rewarding one.

That's why watching for one pairing only is going to be a frustrating experience as well as a rewarding one. Very true, but I guess it all depends of what do you expect from your pair of choice... :wink:

Agree, jair (now that's a novelty!) I absolutely do not watch House for the various romantic pairings (even House's). I watch for my tortured Byronic hero battling his demons and fighting the worlds ill's (literally). I may have my preferences, but House is not a romance or a romantic comedy (or drama).

Oh, I think we agree lots! It's just the disagreements that spark the discussions. :D I have my preferences for the pairings, too--more than one, actually! But overall, I too watch for House and how he navigates his world.

And it still seems to me that just a scan of this page shows that very different things bug different people and what seems contrived to one viewer is excellent writing to another. The writers are not going to win reading online forums and trying to please the various sets of posters. Um, except featuring House. That one I think is a uniting principle. No ensemble. Is it that hard to write a sophisticated romance subplot? I had a much more positive experience of the arc than you did--I thought the kiss was wonderful, very layered with many emotions--but I can still understand your point. I think the problem is that the writers have no intention of pairing House off with any main cast member any time soon, if at all, so they cannot take anything too deep or get in too far, because the relationship has to reset. Stacy was different because they started that one in the middle and had an end point in mind and Stacy wasn't staying. So they could have House get serious and connect with her, and they could have him reject her and mean it. I would have loved to have seen more this arc where House shows his sweet side to Cuddy, because we know he has one. But the most the writers would do was the desk, which didn't have a lot of emotional impact because we really just heard about for a second before it was undercut. But if they had actually had some real connection, they would have been commiting to this being a romantic arc House cares about, and I suspect many many Wilson and Cameron shippers would have been even more outraged, not less, at the idea that there is a canon romance between House and Cuddy. Given the real difficulties, I liked that the arc ended with Cuddy pulled back and House looking to me that he cared more than he let on but accepting where Cuddy is. The House writers may not be naturals at writing romance, but you have to admit they're playing to a tough crowd on that front. At the risk of sounding callous, I really don't think it's important if Wilson and Cameron shippers, or any shippers, are unhappy IF the writers see House and Cuddy (or House and whoever) as a serious storyline and are prepared to see it through with good, believable, smart writing. I think even the most ardent shipper must respond to good drama on this show. The problem is what they're doing with House and Cuddy is not, IMO, good drama. Not that I think there has to be a romance subplot between House and Cuddy: I actually have serious doubts about putting House into a real relationship with any of the regular cast. For the sake of the show, he can't have a fulfilling relationship, so it has to be doomed, and a breakup of a serious romance with an ongoing major character would be a mess. We don't need something like that hanging over the show. Besides, I think House is essentially a loner and I don't really want him to change in essentials. But attraction is a normal part of life to be addressed on any drama, and showing us that House is attracted to/has feelings for someone can work if it doesn't overwhelm everything else. If they will stick to House as a doctor first and foremost, they can't go too seriously wrong IMO.

I agree, and that's precisely what makes most of the arcs they embark on utterly pointless. Most people expect something at the end of the tunnel,look at the House/Wilson/Amber arc (and just to clarify I consider S4(Frozen) to S5(Birthmarks) one arc) ... I expected something, anything, to come out of it. I dont mean that woo House should have changed in some way or anything, but House/Wilson should have. They always do these stories at the end of which there's an ultimatum for House then five minutes later everything gets resolved in some absurd way that leaves (me at least) going ... Wow is that it? It's like there's a dilemma there for 10 episodes, and on the 11th episode I dunno Elvis shows up and the dilemma is gone. ITA. And yet... even though I should know by now that plot arcs on House never get properly resolved, I still watch them with the hope that there WILL be a resolution in the end. Most of the plot arcs revolve around a lesson for House to learn in some way or another, yet (as you said) just when you think House has learnt his lesson and been enlightened ... BAM! He goes back to the way he was. I find this type of writing bizarre... If the writers have no intention (or are too afraid) of changing House at all, then why bother creating plot arcs that revolve around teaching House a lesson? If Wilson getting fired, a drug overdose, Wilson leaving, and even a character death don't change him, then what's the point? As much as I love the big plot arcs (Vogler, Tritter, Stacey, House/Wilson/Amber, etc) ... Perhaps the writers simply shouldn't bother with them. Or they should at least write a plot arc that doesn't revolve around House having to change or improve, because the writers clearly don't want him to go down that route. (which is a shame. There was so much possible improvement that House and Wilson could have gone through after Amber's death, but no, they've just gone back to the way they were before Amber. *sigh*)

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