I mean, the show doesn't come out and say so, but Wilson gives him coffee in that episode. I could buy that that was the first time Wilson gave them to him but I just can't believe that the reason Lupe died was because House was hazy due to the ADs. If that was the case, House would have realized this and said something about it. It would have been a big deal but it wasn't so I just don't believe that was the case.

NightOwl wrote: but Wilson gives him coffee in that episode If you're talking about HT no, he didn't. Wilson brought him coffee after the procedure was already done and Lupe's fate was sealed. Before that House caught and drank from Wilson's coffee cup in the cafeteria scene and then complained it was too sweet. Wilson didn't offer it to him. Nevertheless it's my personal canon that that was the moment Wilson thought about to start dosing House's coffee. And just to make this a little on topic: I'm probably a cheap date... I like season four a lot, the only episode I didn't particularly like was "The Right Stuff" - I found the patient unbearable.

LMC, if he just started taking the ADs, the meds certainly could have made him hazy or distracted without his realizing it. That's the point... being hazy means you're not on your top-game. It was only two episodes later, when Wilson refused to give him the ADs, that House put it all together. "Hmmm... he didn't want to give me the ADs so I could prove I'm not depressed... he used a lame excuse about seeing a psychiatrist... he knows I'd never go see a psychiatrist... and holy crap I have been off my game the past couple weeks.... and crap, I just smiled when I told the patient she's dying... something is way way off here... Wilson must be dosing me, and he didn't want me double-dosing. That's why he didn't give me any when I asked..." And Lully, Wilson certainly could have given him coffee earlier in the episode... we just didn't see it. :wink:

Wilson certainly could have given him coffee earlier in the episode... we just didn't see it. If we didn't see it, if no one said anything about it, it's not canon. House already tried the same procedure twice before (Deception and Who's Your Daddy). He stopped moments before being too late. He risks treatments, so at some point, things must go wrong. He is not a God, he is a genius (sometimes I have doubts, but ok, he is), but he is human and in that way susceptible to fail.

House already tried the same procedure twice before (Deception and Who's Your Daddy). He stopped moments before being too late. He risks treatments, so at some point, things must go wrong. He is not a God, he is a genius (sometimes I have doubts, but ok, he is), but he is human and in that way susceptible to fail. Lully, I have no issue with House trying radical treatments. The issue I have with House's actions in that ep is that he was not focused on the patient, took very little part in the DDX and didn't think about whether anyone had checked for sores. He just wasn't engaged--there at least. He was very engaged with Wilson and Cuddy. I don't think we saw that type of behaviour before. I think he was far more engaged with the patients during this last arc, including Stark, because he was monitoring the medicine and he didn't incapacitate himself until he thought he knew for sure that there was nothing more he could offer Stark. The wild card there was 13 not actually administering the medicine House thought was the key to his original diagnosis, which isn't his own attention slipping, so much as 13's. I don't see the willingness to play games to be particularly different than his willingness to play a game of revenge on VL during a case. House plays games.

Exactly, jair. It's House's lack of engagement in the Lupe case which is the big clue that something was quite "off." I think it's quite clear that he's just begun being dosed at that time.

As we're lingering on the cheating/not cheating/getting kicked out thing, I'm moving my response to Distractions (although S2 overview would do as well.) In theory, I think all the arcs were fine. They were designed to show us something about House and they did. But every one of them went on for too long. It's hard to come up with 22-24 dramatic ideas, other than the patients' illnesses, and I get the feeling that TPTB gratefully grabbed onto plot lines that would take them through half the season, but that stretched them too thin. I S4, if House had started with 10 applicants, he could have dumped 3 anonymous ones and Henry in week 1, crazy polio doc in week 2, Cole in week 3 and Amber in week 4. It would have been tighter and more interesting for me. But the weakest episode this season, for me, has been Guardian Angels. There were several eps I was indifferent to, but they all had at least a scene or two that I likekd. I can't think of one in GA.

This is a little OT, so I'll post my response in the House Training thread.

ITA, Poeia - whether I had liked Survivor or not, your outline is exactly what I would have done. Ironically, I was interested in the concept of the CIA episode - it took House and the show in a fresh direction and had him out of his comfortable cocoon, while validating his wider reputation. The execution of that concept, however, was mostly disastrous to me, and this was probably my least favorite S4 outing. I can accept that House cheated - he cheats now. Secret Santa is an example of the silly, superficial type, but exactly because he seeks truth, he sometimes bypasses or ignores "facts". Bypass/change the rules is his mantra. Forgive the Trek reference, but Kirk also cheated on the Kobayashi Maru exercise when he was at the Academy. :) House frequently rejects a diagnosis which reflects the symptoms, but for him, doesn't add up. His restless mind also wants to get to the meatier matters because he is bored by the mundane, like diagnostic testing. He'll often just cut to the (frequently wrong) treatment. ITA, Namaste - he would make the world's worst researcher, at least in the preliminaries. He could only be effective at the late stages, when all the data has been accumulated, but no one else can make the connections. He has the imagination to take the necessary intuitive leap, and reach a valid hypothesis. Which is exactly to the point of my objection re: his "vapor-lock". For me, his special ability is canon - he works on a diagnosis in the middle of his own infarction, hallucination, Oxycodone binge, detoxing, etc. - impaired, but there. It is largely intuitive and innate, augmented by his acquired knowledge and experience. With Lupe, he didn't blank out on a diagnosis - he failed to pay attention. And House is not infallible, nor would I want him to be. Zzzz... But the wheels completely stopped turning only once, and not for an acceptable reason, IMO. Like Mozart, he's an a**hole with daddy issues, but endowed with a single, almost congenital, almost automatic, talent. And I actually like that he is in some, even in most ways, one of the guys. It's a good reality check for him. But if the rare gift, which finds expression despite any circumstance, is derailed, it becomes harder to overlook his grossly negative qualities. Silly House, cruel House, childish House, sexually awkward House, prankish House, boorish House - all the Houses we would never tolerate in real life, are sheltered under the umbrella of a stunning intellect and a secretly caring heart. These two qualities define, for me, the essence of this character. I'm only saying that any other aspects of the character are fluid, elastic, and open to the most outrageous deviation. But great care should have been taken, and very good reason given, before that integral, essential, nearly involuntary mental process was debased. You might feel the same if his secretly caring heart had been on the hit list.

I also think the major problem of the Survivor arc was its length. Having two weeks that were like freebies was sort of wasteful. Half the suspense in watching a show like Project Runway or AI is knowing that somebody is going home, with very few exceptions. The funny thing is that they used some reality tropes very well (spotlighting a character the week they're getting cut, for example), but not that very basic one. (They even used one last week - House offering Amber a spot if she could diagnosis the patient was a trick used on PR last year. Two eliminated candidates were brought back and told that if they won that week, they would be back in the contest.) For that matter, if the point about Terzi was important to make, they could have made her one of the original candidates. She even makes the case for House's game in some way, since on paper she probably would look good. In an interview she would seem mature, discreet, no-nonsense...but in practice she just couldn't perform at the level House needs.

For that matter, if the point about Terzi was important to make, they could have made her one of the original candidates. She even makes the case for House's game in some way, since on paper she probably would look good. In an interview she would seem mature, discreet, no-nonsense...but in practice she just couldn't perform at the level House needs. I think the Terzi thing could certainly have been condensed, but I don't think it would work as well with her being one of the original candidates. I think it was important for House to be gobsmacked by her and act like an idiot, and that Terzi should take it for granted that her looks would help her bypass the line, to play into Ugly. And I absolutely loved the scene that ended the CIA ep when House is shocked to find her outside PPTH saying she's accepting his offer. And he doesn't even consider she means a job offer, and fumbles about trying to believe she means the sex. I think that scene made the whole ep. I can accept that House cheated - he cheats now. Secret Santa is an example of the silly, superficial type, but exactly because he seeks truth, he sometimes bypasses or ignores "facts". With the VL cheating, though, we don't have any evidence to support anything other than he didn't want to do the work. He wasn't seeking truth there. But the wheels completely stopped turning only once, and not for an acceptable reason, IMO. For me, I did find it acceptable, because the wheels didn't stop turning. Instead he had to diagnose his own issue, and I don't think anyone finds it as easy to see himself as clearly as he sees someone else. He WAS noticing that there was an issue in how he was reacting, he just needed some feedback to help him see how. And I actually like that he is in some, even in most ways, one of the guys. It's a good reality check for him. This is how I view the Terzi story :D I think it also works for me because House actually does his own reality check-he's not so far gone someone else has to take him aside and let him know he's not evaluating Terzi well. He goes to Wilson, Wilson doesn't have to lecture him.

It was only two episodes later, when Wilson refused to give him the ADs, that House put it all together. But he did put it together and if the ADs were the reason Lupe died, I think House would have put that together too.

But he did put it together and if the ADs were the reason Lupe died, I think House would have put that together too. That objection to me seems to rely on the House writers following a linear storyline where all loose ends are tied up and we get to view all the fallout of important events. I don't think they operate that way--I think we have connect the dots style of storytelling with snapshots of important events. We often have to fill in storyline between those events and we often don't get to view the logical consequences.

Agree to disagree, I don't think something like the death of a patient happening because House was hazy because his best friend dosed him would go past him. I actually think it would be something that would royally p*ss him off and since that didn't happen, I don't believe Lupe's death and House's distraction were the ADs fault because I don't believe he was on them. He didn't seem hazy or distracted in Family.

No problem agreeing to disagree.