Season 4 General Discussion

I would agree with this if I thought they actually were needed characters now. Yeah, they've shown up on occasion but in the three eps after the game, we got one brief scene with Chase and then both him and Cameron at the Christmas party, a Cameron subplot (that I personally was there to get the newbies out of the way so House could bond with Cate) and Chase in a couple of scenes in DEC. To me, that's not much of an effort to bring them back. When the show comes back, maybe things will be different but I don't think it's inconceivable to get rid of them now. In fact, I personally feel that they would be the easiest to get rid of now. With the exception of Chase in DEC, their scenes are mostly filler scenes and IMO, not very interesting ones at that. You'll get no argument from me that the writing on whole this season has been poor. Their ability to juggle characters and storylines has been negligible. Cameron and Chase and Foreman have been used in truly pointless ways. I think their inclusion into most of the episodes have been shot-gunned and have slowed the pace of the episodes. It is one of a million ways why I think season 4, with the exception of the excellent "Frozen" and "Don't Ever Change" has sucked donkey balls. But is anyone really making the argument that it makes more sense to jettison these characters now than it did when two quit and one was fired at the end of a season? I'm sorry, I'm not tracking with that argument. Having them whither away now or shuffle them to the back of the pack is pretty much like admitting that they never trusted their initial vision and judgment to begin with; a fatal weakness for a television show.

But is anyone really making the argument that it makes more sense to jettison these characters now than it did when two quit and one was fired at the end of a season? I won't make that arguement. I think it would have made more sense to get rid of them at the end of last season than it would to have them fade away now. I think HE wrapped up both of them quite nicely. As much as I love S4, and I really, really love S4, the way they've been dealing with Chase and Cameron has been awful. I think that TPTB were just afraid of alieanating too many fans (dumping half your cast will obviously run that risk) so they had to bring them back, but I just haven't seen much evidence that the writers care that much about them anymore. Perhaps it's not so much that they can't write for a larger cast, but they just don't really have an interest in writing for those particular characters anymore. That's just pure speculation on my part. So, while I would have prefered that they would have just let Chase and Cameron at the end of last season, it would not surprise me if they let them go at the end of this one. Again, this is just speculation. I'm going to hide from the stuff that's going to be thrown at me now. Can I hide with you because I'm right there with you in terms of CCF.

I think it makes a lot MORE sense to get rid of the new characters who were all created to be disposable anyway. If we are to believe what they told us--they didn't know who they were going to keep around, so they had to make them all pretty disposable. (And does anyone want to buy a bridge?) Still, they're of no more importance than a Vogler, Tritter, or Stacy. They've only demonstrated how much of a formula the show is. The formula was fine because the characterization kept the show strong. Now the characterization has taken a hit because the parallels between the new team and old team are so glaring that it makes the show seem far LESS creative that it did before. I honestly believe the show would be better off if they brought back Chase and Cameron and kept only one new character instead of keeping these three characters that are so reflective of the originals that it feels like you're watching a soap opera where the only thing that's changed is the actor delivering the lines.

I'm behind the bunker with GG and LMC -- and I like Chase (and tolerate Cameron). The fact of the matter is, other than the fact that House needs a "team," it's clear to me from this season that who the team members are is fairly insignificant, as long as he can play against them. And while, yes, they had relatively fully developed characters in CC&F, it's that very fact that makes them ready to move on. Their stories -- as it regards their relationship with House -- have been told. We don't know the new characters, and their stories are yet to be told. If this were a series centered on a team, I could see a reason to keep CC&F around and continue to tell their stories, but it's not "Three Little Ducklings and How they Became Diagnosticians." It's about a misanthropic medical genius whose story is told in reflections on medical cases. It's why we don't need to see Wilson at home with Amber, unless it's important to House. It's why Cuddy's baby issues aren't a core plot, except as they relate to House.

If we are to believe what they told us--they didn't know who they were going to keep around, so they had to make them all pretty disposable. First of all, I don't believe that. I do believe they knew who was sticking around. The new characters may be disposable (I like them better) but apparently to TPTB so were CC. The team to me, is just that, House's team there to help solve the case. I don't care about them outside of that and if I can watch a more enjoyable, less hostile, less angry team (which IMO is 13, Taub, and Kutner) do it, I prefer it. I think it makes a lot MORE sense to get rid of the new characters At this point, I disagree. Having CC come back now would be a giant step back IMO. Well, I take that back, Chase becoming an attending in the Diagnostics department would be great to see because he actually had great talent in Diagnostics. Going back to work for House would be a huge step back for Cameron because a)I don't think she was that great in the field and b) I don't think she was really ever all that interested in it. Going back for her would just be going back for House.

Count me as yet another viewer who has no real investment in CC&F. I eventually grew to like Chase, and would have welcomed him back, but I think his character was ready to move on. He had grown beyond what House could offer him. Frankly I never had much interest in the ducklings or their lives outside the sphere of House. I don't need to know whether Chase and Cameron are still seeing each other, or what they do on their time off, or whether Foreman is dating anyone. Nor do I have much interest in the new ducklings, but at least they still have the potential to engage me in a positive manner at some point. Unlike Cameron (who started to grate after about three episodes) or Foreman (who annoyed the heck out of me Season 3.) I think the ducklings serve a purpose, but for me that purpose is to move the plot along. I don't really have an emotional attachment to any of them. In fact, they often annoyed me to the extent that I used to cringe when they came on screen. That was a lot of cringing! So in a way, I do view them as replaceable. Really, the only truly necessary character on this show is House himself - even though he does need other characters to "bounce" off of from time to time. The ducklings all serve a similar function - to be characters that allow House to play ping-pong with diagnostic ideas... so whether it be Chase or Kutner, they serve in that capacity. That having been said, I fully understand the disappointment of viewers who were heavily invested in the ducklings - and there certainly are many. I feel their pain. I too would be very disappointed if my favorite characters were shunted aside in favor of other characters and I felt there was no closure. However, I also have seen reactions from CC&F fans which I found a bit extreme. I think it a bit much to call for an "ensemble" show where all characters are equally explored, or to claim the show "sucks" because certain characters are less visible. The former would not BE the show House, and the latter strikes me as sour grapes. I figured out early on when watching this show, that the focus is HOUSE and how HE interacts with the world around him - and yes, it can be extremely frustrating - remember Wilson's long lost brother? The only reason we even know he exists is because House found out, and as much as I would love a follow up to that plot, it will never happen unless LLB somehow comes to HOUSE'S attention once more. Same thing with the anti-depressants. It is not just the ducklings that have unresolved plot points. It is true of all the characters. I suspect that TPTB kept CC&F because they did not want to alienate their fans (they do tend to string all of us along) but they cannot quite find a way to integrate them in an organic fashion - so there is a certain awkward quality to their presence on the show. The lack of CC&F is not a major problem for *me*. I even welcome less Cameron and Foreman - but I do sympathize with their fans - for all the good it will do.

At this point, I'm pretty much neutral on Cameron and Foreman. I don't think I'd care one way or the other what happens with them. With Chase, I really do enjoy his scenes when he's there, but him not being there doesn't lessen the quality of an episode for me. His scenes with House in the last episode were favorites in an episode filled with favorites. But, I have no complaints about Frozen. So, if they found a way to work him in, I can't say I wouldn't like it a lot, but I'm sure I'd find episodes without him to be really good as well. But, I've always watched this show for House first and foremost.

That having been said, I fully understand the disappointment of viewers who were heavily invested in the ducklings - and there certainly are many. I feel their pain. I too would be very disappointed if my favorite characters were shunted aside in favor of other characters and I felt there was no closure. Absolutely, I feel terribly sorry for the fans of Cameron and Chase. At least I know that the amount of screentime my favorite character gets is just fine with RSL.

At this point, I disagree. Having CC come back now would be a giant step back IMO. Well, I take that back, Chase becoming an attending in the Diagnostics department would be great to see because he actually had great talent in Diagnostics. Going back to work for House would be a huge step back for Cameron because a)I don't think she was that great in the field and b) I don't think she was really ever all that interested in it. Going back for her would just be going back for House. I think it would only be a giant step back if bringing in the new team had been a giant step forward--which it wasn't. I thought the whole survivor arc was weak because it was full of silly reality show rip-offs and toilet humor and the character of House suffered as did every other character on the show. He became a dumbed down version of himself. I think there was more to the series with the original cast than has even been hinted at with the new ones. I would be content if they just brought Chase back into House's realm. I would rather see 13 and Taub disappear as well. Kutner--I could probably like him if I could understand what the heck he was saying. Obviously TPTB don't think Chase and Cameron are completely disposable since they kept them around this long. I hope that bodes well for getting things back to normal. I feel like the show has been much weaker with the new team because they lack the characterization and history of the old team. And, quite honestly, they're just not that interesting--especially Taub who is a huge bore. And despite all their insistance that 13 is "mysterious," I simply don't care what her mystery is. Being bisexual? Yawn. There's nothing "fresh" about that storyline. I'm also annoyed at the way all the new people seem to have gotten The Idiot's Guide to Understanding House. They're already immune to him and they shouldn't be. I suppose if the only characters I cared about were House and Wilson, I'd be perfectly happy with the season. We all have our biases. I care more about Chase than I do about House--just as I thought Niles was more interesting than Frasier even though that show as focused on the main character too. No main character can stand alone. They're only as strong as their supporting cast. House's supporting cast has been weakened and the predictable formula has been emphasized. I just want Chase back. It's a disappointment that they gave him this little arc last year emphasizing how much of a burgeoning diagnostician he was only to.... make him head of surgery? Huh? He should be an attending for House, just as the character was originally intended to be.

I don't care about them outside of that and if I can watch a more enjoyable, less hostile, less angry team (which IMO is 13, Taub, and Kutner) do it, I prefer it. I totally (and respectfully) disagree. I don't see Chase, Cameron, and Foreman as a hostile, angry team. Chase (who = love) got angry like one time (when he learned that House had known about his dad's impending death and kept it from him—totally legitimate reason to be angry). Cameron occasionally got morally outraged but always got over it b/c she "loved" House so much. Foreman shook his head, rolled his eyes, and snickered a lot. He only really got angry at the end of S3. (And even then, I consider him whiny, not so much angry and hostile.) I don't see Foreman as a generally angry person. (Chip on his shoulder, maybe.) Taub and Kutner... I don't see much in the way of anger and hostility (although Taub may possibly carry some from the time House looked into his story). But 13... she is the angriest, most hostile main character we've seen on this show. I don't even understand why she wants to work for House. He pisses her off so much; it just doesn't seem worth it for her. Her anger and hostility alone outmatches the total that CCF demonstrated in three years. JMO. I totally agree with extra_cat's post at the top of this page (and mostly with her post right before this one), and I'm glad she stated it so that I wouldn't have to. :lol:

I suppose if the only characters I cared about were House and Wilson, I'd be perfectly happy with the season. We all have our biases. I care more about Chase than I do about House--just as I thought Niles was more interesting than Frasier even though that show as focused on the main character too. I completely sympathize. I know that if Wilson were getting the shaft like this, I would be royally p*ssed. You're right, we all have our biases. I do feel badly for the fans of CC this year, I just don't happen to agree. But I'm totally with you on the Niles and Fraiser thing. :wink: I totally (and respectfully) disagree. I don't see Chase, Cameron, and Foreman as a hostile, angry team. Fair. I know that's only my opinion and it's not one I expect to have a lot of people agreeing with me on. I don't see Chase as hostile, it's mostly Cameron and Foreman. Cameron seemed to get p*ssed off about every episode over any little thing and it happened often enough to make me actively despise her and cringe whenever she showed up on screen. She made mountains out of mole hills, JMO. Foreman seemed pretty hostile too. Cameron and Foreman would gang up on Chase on more than one occasion. Foreman, who is supposedly friends with Cameron treated her like crap. Cameron could be pretty viscious to Chase too. The only one I would consider really friendly or nice is Chase. I haven't seen that kind of collective distaste for each other with the new team. Granted, it's only been three eps and while I agree that 13 is pretty irritable, I don't think she is the angriest, most hostile main character we've seen on the show and I don't think it outmatches Cameron. At least we haven't seen 13 take he anger out on a patient yet. Again, this is JMO and I'm sure it's an unpopular one.

I like Chase, but I wish they would just pick between 'character on the show with importance' or nothing at all. If they pick nothing at all, then that's sad, because Chase was a good character, but they aren't using him, so there's really no reason to keep him around for 12 episodes. And if they pick 'character on the show with importance', well, that's great. It will make lots of fans happy. As for Cammy, I couldn't really care, so I'm leaving her alone. :D

Cameron seemed to get p*ssed off about every episode over any little thing and it happened often enough to make me actively despise her and cringe whenever she showed up on screen. She made mountains out of mole hills, JMO. LMC, I totally agree with this. I agree that Cameron made mountains out of mole hills, and yes, she makes me cringe. I can't stand her. I can't stand her insistence that House loves her. I can't stand her self-centeredness (among other things). But I prefer her to 13. I am used to Cameron's... Cameron-ness. And I'm 99.99% confident that House harbors nothing but physical attraction to her, so I don't fear anything about her presence on the team. Granted, it's only been three eps and while I agree that 13 is pretty irritable, I don't think she is the angriest, most hostile main character we've seen on the show and I don't think it outmatches Cameron. At least we haven't seen 13 take he anger out on a patient yet. But 13 took out some serious anger on House when she drugged him with narcotics and did three biopsies on him against his will (including one without any lidocaine). I think that is worse than anything Cameron ever did to a patient. 13 slammed a laptop cover down on House's hand (for no good reason). Blech. She's violent! (Yea yea, Cameron kissed and stabbed in Half Wit, but that was fairly mild in comparison to 13's antics, IMO.) I guess I'm like House—I don't like change! And I'm very protective of House, so 13's assault of him really angers me beyond what is probably healthy for me to feel about a fictional character. :lol:

I figured out early on when watching this show, that the focus is HOUSE and how HE interacts with the world around him - and yes, it can be extremely frustrating - remember Wilson's long lost brother? The only reason we even know he exists is because House found out, and as much as I would love a follow up to that plot, it will never happen unless LLB somehow comes to HOUSE'S attention once more. Same thing with the anti-depressants. It is not just the ducklings that have unresolved plot points. It is true of all the characters. I figured this out early, too. I have no expectation that the show will ever revolve around anybody but House and I'm happy for that to be the case. But that's not the point I, at least, have been trying to make in my general critique of season 4. My critique lies in the fact that by bringing back characters they should have grown off the show they created an avoidable mess of character landscape. Had they exited CC&F I would have been just fine with it because, although there were plenty of stories left to tell, one could argue that they had closure and ended things at a logical point. But they didn't do that. My complaint has nothing to do with what character I prefer over others and everything to do with half-assed, non-commital writing. The root of my complaint is that if you're going to make the effort of bringing characters back from the dead, then actually use them in a plausible way. Sticking them out to pasture now is ridiculous because, as a viewer, they've already piqued my interest as to what those characters are doing now but at the same time they also seem fairly uninterested in actually writing about them. It's the fact that they never knew whether to fish or cut bait that has me questioning their judgment and overall quality of the writing this season.

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