Season 4 General Discussion

And I am used to my favorite characters (aside from House) Wilson and Cuddy, having limited screen time, so that is nothing new. People who watched for the ducklings are having to make some real adjustments to the amount of screen time their favs are getting this season, but I am used to mere glimpses. I suspect people do see the show in entirely different ways. I actually don't think TPTB consider CC&F to be interchangeable characters. Nor do I think they feel the actors can be jettisoned. If they wanted them gone, they'd be gone. But they're not. If they really wanted to wipe them off the face of PPTH existence, they would have revamped the credits. In the grand scheme of things, redesigning new credits isn't that expensive. The problem with me is that I can think of a million ways to better integrate their characters into the show in evolved roles without losing the medical aspect of the show. The problem with me is that they've now gone down a storyline avenue that not only bores me and, by design, makes me see all of these new characters as lesser focused doctors, but in fact replaces one "formula" with another one that has a much, much shorter shelf life. 2-3 episodes of new people jockeying for a position might have even been fun. By 8 episodes (and quite possibly the majority of the "season") I just want them to get to the point. I've never been one to sit around and tally up the screentime or speaking parts for each character. I don't really care that much. If Foreman has 10 more lines an episode than Chase, so what? Given that there's really not an episode between the pilot and, say, Fetal Position that I dislike, I'd say the balance of characters has always worked for me. There are plenty of posters who express complete indifference as to who the supporting characters are. Personally, I find that strange. There's no way I could have been engaged with any show if I could easily discard half the cast. But that's just me. In fact, I know it's me, because I'm truly not clicking with the new cast of caricatures they've added and, as a result, I'm not as engaged as I have previously been. I think TPTB have actually proven a point with this arc--they've given us a bunch of characters that actually are meant to be disposable to demonstrate the difference between being engaged with a character and not. Sure, people ceremonially wept when they eliminated ROF but a few episodes later, who really gives a shit? I'm not waiting for CTB to be germane to the show, I'm waiting for her to be eliminated. There are just as many posters that say, well as long as there's House/Wilson/Cuddy then I'm okay. Again, I would find that a completely lopsided show. In fact, it would be a show about House the fucked up friend and House the panty thief. House the doctor would become a second thought entirely. And as much as I dislike the episodes that ramp up Cuddy's exposure (not because I don't like Cuddy or LE but because whenever there's more Cuddy she's either becomes hysterical or stupid) if they went 8 episodes in a row of severely limiting her current slice of the pie or leaving her out altogether I would start throwing red flags there, too. As a viewer, I'm fine with change. I would have thought it absurd for CC&F to remain in the same position for the run of the show. Someone else pointed out a comparison to early vs. later Elvis Costello....for the record, I like both. I'll crank up "Radio Radio" as loud as possible and still enjoy his duets with Burt Bacharach--but that doesn't mean there wasn't some less than stellar music in between. If I'm going to continue on with this motif, I guess I'm waiting for them to get the almost-but-not-quite-anything album like "Brutal Youth" out of the way and get on with the series.

Bailey, from previous posts I assume your favorite character is Chase? Verdad? So, yes, seeing as Chase has probably had less screen time than any of the other characters this season, I can see you might find this season disappointing in that aspect. Of all the ducklings Chase is my favorite, so I do notice his absence - but it does not overall affect my enjoyment of the show because other characters hold my interest much more. Given that there's really not an episode between the pilot and, say, Fetal Position that I dislike, I'd say the balance of characters has always worked for me. Dare I venture to say that this is because regardless of a few lines more or less, Chase had a lot of screen time the first three seasons? Those of us who like Wilson or Cuddy more are quite aware there has never been real "balance" among the supporting cast. There's no way I could have been engaged with any show if I could easily discard half the cast. But that's just me. In fact, I know it's me, because I'm truly not clicking with the new cast of caricatures they've added and, as a result, I'm not as engaged as I have previously been. And yet, this is where many of us have been for the first three seasons. You are waiting for CTB to be elimited? I waited for three years for Cameron to disappear - and she is still around. :P I never clicked with Cameron or Foreman, and only came to appreciate Chase late into the game - so for three years I have watched a show (and generally enjoyed a show) where I was not only indifferent, but actually actively disliked half the cast (many of whom had a majority of the screen time.) However, as someone said, quality is worth more than quanity, and for me, the magic that is H/W and the sparks from House/Cuddy keep me coming back for more. That and the fact that watching HL work with ANYONE is a joy - even if I dislike the other character, he makes the scenes interesting. And could you clarify a comment you made? I am not sure I understand your assertion that somehow focusing on House/Wilson/Cuddy would result in the marginalizing of House the doctor. Why do you think that? Do you think the writers are unable to to use Wilson and Cuddy in other capacities than fucked up friends and panty donators? I suspect they could having seen evidence of it in the past. In season 1, Wilson often took part in DDX with the ducklings - and House has often consulted Wilson about patients. Those scenes are some of my favorites, and without minions, we might even get more of them! I do not think House needs minions in order to act as a doctor. However I so admit, their presence makes that easier. You are waiting for them to "get on with the series" which I interpret to mean, "back to things as usual" - am I right? I do hope they bring Chase back in a bit more, but I am not sure I want to go back to the status quo- for if they do, then what has been the whole point of all this? Do you think there was a point? No doubt these changes are far easier for me to take, cause I cringed through a lot of CCF screen time for three years. But I found enough to like about the series as a whole to consider it one of my favorite shows regardless. Whatever happens, I hope you are able to find the same. :)

Bailey, from previous posts I assume your favorite character is Chase? Verdad? Ha. No. I don't think anyone would accuse me of being a Chaser. My point is that I really don't have any favorites amongst the supporting cast. I consider them all to have been integral to the success of the show and my enjoyment of it. So, yes, seeing as Chase has probably had less screen time than any of the other characters this season, I can see you might find this season disappointing in that aspect. Of all the ducklings Chase is my favorite, so I do notice his absence - but it does not overall affect my enjoyment of the show because other characters hold my interest much more. Again, I don't have a favorite duckling so I'm not necessarily missing one more than the other. I think they all had the chance to be at the forefront of episodes (to a degree) and I think all of those episodes worked equally well. Also, they all became close to House in some way or had unique insight into him which was accumulated over a span of time. Dare I venture to say that this is because regardless of a few lines more or less, Chase had a lot of screen time the first three seasons? Those of us who like Wilson or Cuddy more are quite aware there has never been real "balance" among the supporting cast. I really am finding it hysterical that I just got tagged as world's biggest Chase fan. :-) I think there are people in the Chase thread that are going to be jealous. When I say I was happy with the balance of the show I wasn't implying that each supporting character had an equal amount of screentime, calculated down to the nth second. Frankly, I don't think the story would work quite as well if Cuddy and Wilson were on screen as much as the ducklings were. Or, if they did have that exposure, the show wouldn't be about House as the medical Sherlock Holmes solving mystery diseases. Wilson is House's one friend and a smart doctor in his own right but he's not in the diagnostics department. While they may consult and bounce ideas here and there, it makes no dramatic sense to pull Wilson deeper into that diagnostic/brainstorming mode. Much has been made of the House/Wilson vs. Holmes/Watson dynamic but I believe it was RSL himself who pointed out that it was the team that was really Watson. Likewise, Cuddy is House's boss, not a member of his team. Giving her more screentime either means House is less focused on his patients or Cuddy is becoming adept at diagnostics. And one thing we've learned is that Cuddy is actually not adept at diagnostics. Again, drawing her more in that world actually takes her away from the role as House's boss. And yet, this is where many of us have been for the first three seasons. You are waiting for CTB to be elimited? I waited for three years for Cameron to disappear - and she is still around. :P I'm waiting for CTB to be eliminated because she is designed to be eliminated. They're purposefully not going to create characters that the audience gets too attached to because the plan is to get rid of most of them. That being the case, at this point they're mostly broad, caricature like depictions that could, maybe, possibly have the potential to go somewhere but right now are mainly placeholders. And could you clarify a comment you made? I am not sure I understand your assertion that somehow focusing on House/Wilson/Cuddy would result in the marginalizing of House the doctor. Why do you think that? I think I touched upon this above but it is mainly a function of their characters. If every scene is with Wilson or Cuddy, it is clearly not a scene that includes House working with his team and solving medical mysteries. Oh, I suppose they could really go wild with change and make House/Cuddy/Wilson the diagnostics team but I don't think that would work too well. Do you think the writers are unable to to use Wilson and Cuddy in other capacities than fucked up friends and panty donators? I suspect they could having seen evidence of it in the past. In season 1, Wilson often took part in DDX with the ducklings - and House has often consulted Wilson about patients. Those scenes are some of my favorites, and without minions, we might even get more of them! I do not think House needs minions in order to act as a doctor. However I so admit, their presence makes that easier. I think the point has been made time and again that House needs a team to work most effectively. This was made in the pilot when House is refusing all patients and has to be cajoled into putting his team to use. It's made again in Airborne where he picks random people that remind him of his team. It's made again in the "Alone" where House solves the case, but only after bouncing ideas off of anyone who will listen. I don't know if the writers could depict Wilson and Cuddy in any other way. But more importantly, I don't know why they would want to. What else should Wilson be to House? He's House's one voluntary friend. But during the working hours he has another specialty altogether. I don't see how or why they would want to shoehorn Wilson in there further. And while we sometimes see it, but not always, we can assume that House and Wilson spent more time off-hours together. To me, frankly Cuddy works far more effectively as a character in small doses. Seeing more of her usually means that House is walking all over her, or she's incompetently taking over the medical care of a patient or she's flipping out in hysterics on a plane. Less = more with Cuddy. To date, we have no data to suggest that she spends any off-hours socializing with House. You are waiting for them to "get on with the series" which I interpret to mean, "back to things as usual" - am I right? I do hope they bring Chase back in a bit more, but I am not sure I want to go back to the status quo- for if they do, then what has been the whole point of all this? Do you think there was a point? I think the point is to show that CC&F have outgrown their roles as subordinates to House but IMO they have not outgrown the show itself. However, I think TPTB have created a fairly cluttered mess at this point and it will have to sort itself out for the growth of those characters to be further explored. To me, House interacting with patients and his team was the single biggest prism in which to explore his character through the first three seasons. It was inevitable, and he sort of fought it, but he did become close with all three team members. I really don't think that the objective of hiring new team members is to watch House form human attachments all over again. That would be treading over the same ground. (Particularly if they're going to be using very similar plot points as they did in Fidelity/Need To Know/You Don't Need To Know and just swapping out Cameron for 13 to compare & contrast.) It does seem to me that House is less engaged with the current newbies (at least in this point of the game) and even the patients themselves. Patient care seems to have been put on the back-burner in favor of cut throat tactics between all the new caricatures jockeying for a spot. (Mind you this is nothing that I can prove, its just a general tone that I sense.) That being the case, I feel like the prism in which to view House has been severely limited. And I don't think that more Wilson and more Cuddy can fill that void. I am curious about the folks that applaud the "switching things up"---is there really an expectation that "House" isn't going to be relying on the same old/same old formula? Are they expecting this absurd game to last all year?

And could you clarify a comment you made? I am not sure I understand your assertion that somehow focusing on House/Wilson/Cuddy would result in the marginalizing of House the doctor. Why do you think that? Pardon me, bailey, I don't presume to read your mind, but... Lagniappe, I interpreted bailey to mean that in previous seasons, the Duckling scenes were focused on the medicine, with side references to the character's personalities and their "games". This season, the DDX scenes seem overwhelmed by the game, with the medicine as an afterthought. Hard for House to shine as a doctor when he's so busy being an ass. (Much as I enjoy that aspect of his personality as well, for the most part.) I am not that invested in any ducklings, old or new, but House works best with a team, and though HL makes any actor look good, he positively sparkles when you feel a connection / conflict between the characters. You are waiting for them to "get on with the series" which I interpret to mean, "back to things as usual" - am I right? I do hope they bring Chase back in a bit more, but I am not sure I want to go back to the status quo- for if they do, then what has been the whole point of all this? Do you think there was a point? :) sasmom's latest BlogCritic article mentions the absence of the quiet, introspective scenes this season. I miss them as well, as I think bailey does. So, no, not "back to things as usual", but I hate to see some of the best elements of the show eliminated entirely. God, I do hope there is a point! But like bailey, I'm getting a little impatient for TPTB to get to it. I think this quote from HL describes what drew me to the show, kept me involved, and what I hope to see more of: On the episodes this season: “I’ve never read anything that so ambitiously tries to mix broad comedy and gut-wrenching tragedy and philosophical musings and bizarre literary references all in the space of five seconds. The speed with which it jumps from tone to tone is quite phenomenally ambitious. As always, the casting on the show is absolutely phenomenal. It’s thrilling to work with these (new) actors.” I found TPTB's ambition to be breathtaking TV. Deep, funny, intelligent, thoughtful (and thought provoking), moving, riveting. But it's a long way between discussing euthanasia, pain meds, health proxies, true friendship, the limits of loyalty... to how does one acquire a person's used underwear. Please. When you walk the creative wire, of course you fall off sometimes. I enjoy some of the bits with the clowns on the ground. But I'd love to see them back on the high wire as well.

I found TPTB's ambition to be breathtaking TV. Deep, funny, intelligent, thoughtful (and thought provoking), moving, riveting. But it's a long way between discussing euthanasia, pain meds, health proxies, true friendship, the limits of loyalty... to how does one acquire a person's used underwear. Please. When you walk the creative wire, of course you fall off sometimes. I enjoy some of the bits with the clowns on the ground. But I'd love to see them back on the high wire as well. Exactly.

I found TPTB's ambition to be breathtaking TV. Deep, funny, intelligent, thoughtful (and thought provoking), moving, riveting. But it's a long way between discussing euthanasia, pain meds, health proxies, true friendship, the limits of loyalty... to how does one acquire a person's used underwear. Please. When you walk the creative wire, of course you fall off sometimes. I enjoy some of the bits with the clowns on the ground. But I'd love to see them back on the high wire as well. But you're comparing three years worth of episodic highs to one singular episode. That's an apples to oranges comparison. That would be like using the Chase that we saw in "Control" as the only example that existed of that character. And I'd argue that even this particular singular episode had its moments of bigger issues -- wonder v. knowledge, hope and faith.

Baily, Just wanted to thank you for being willing to clarify your position. I think I understand better now, and agree for the most part. Personally, as much as I thrill to H/W and H/Cuddy interactions, I would not want that to be the total focus of the show either... Though I would not mind more H/W screen time! Those two rock!

Quote: I found TPTB's ambition to be breathtaking TV. Deep, funny, intelligent, thoughtful (and thought provoking), moving, riveting. But it's a long way between discussing euthanasia, pain meds, health proxies, true friendship, the limits of loyalty... to how does one acquire a person's used underwear. Please. When you walk the creative wire, of course you fall off sometimes. I enjoy some of the bits with the clowns on the ground. But I'd love to see them back on the high wire as well. But you're comparing three years worth of episodic highs to one singular episode. That's an apples to oranges comparison. That would be like using the Chase that we saw in "Control" as the only example that existed of that character. And I'd argue that even this particular singular episode had its moments of bigger issues -- wonder v. knowledge, hope and faith. I think Namaste makes a great point: there have been many wonderful deep episodes with thoughtful reflective moments over the past three years, but there have also been ones that meant to be but missed and some that didn't even mean to be. Que Sera Sera is not often mentioned for anything but Chase missing in action. I personally found House to be over the top in LITS and the theme mismanaged by Cameron's silly obsessiveness taking over the exploration. House was extremely offputting indeed in Who's Your Daddy . . . there have always been episodes that work for some people better than others. The whole Tritter arc didn't work for me, and not because I don't like angst, but I loved many Hugh Laurie moments within it. This season, I haven't loved each episode equally, but I have really enjoyed some, loved Ugly with a passion, and found a couple meh. I adored ROF and think he was well worth meeting and at this point enjoy all the newbies--any of them could stay. For a quiet revealing moment, House waking up from his electrifying look at the other side and telling Wilson he loved him worked for me--Hugh's delivery convinced me he was embedding that moment in a joke, but it was meant to be heard. I think it fit very well in with this season's exploration of hope, faith and wonder. House looks like he is rejecting faith in that ep, but really is drawn to question his own faith. Upon getting confirmation yet again that there really is no more than this life, he's left with the knowledge that we have to make our lives worth living all by ourselves, as he told the (very engaging to me) POTW. And he tells Wilson he loves him. Last season many people were very upset at the lack of exploration of how House feels about Wilson. This season, we got a very nice peek. House and Wilson in general have been written extremely well this season, and Ugly gave us the best Cuddy we've seen in a while. The only character I'm missing is Chase, and I haven't given up hope that once the team is settled, there is a plan to integrate him back in. I'm not missing Cameron at all, though there was a brief shining moment when I thought the writers might move her character on, thus making her more interesting than in the past three years, but that moment faded. Foreman--I lost interest in him last year, and the best I can say this year is that last ep, he didn't annoy me. Even for more Chase, I wouldn't give up what we've got this year. For one thing, I have no faith whatsoever that under the old structure, we'd be getting loads of Chasecentric stories building on the growth he showed last year. He got more time during the last half of season three because he was written into Cameron's story. Most of the time, he was the least prominent duckling. If it turns out the writers have little interest in him as a character, that's the way it is, under this structure or the old one.

I definately think that House needs a team but I don't believe he needs the specific CCF team, maybe that's why those three never really mattered to me. Yes, I know he had connections with all of them and I do believe he cared/cares about them but to me, they were there to mainly to help solve the case and if we need a team to do that (and as I said, I think we do) then I'm glad that we've got (to me) a more interesting one now. CCF just never grabbed me and made me care all that deeply about them, more often than not I'm bored with them, even Chase who is the only one I actually like. I agree that Cuddy (as much as I love her) works best in small doses. I couldn't stand her in Humpty Dumpty, Fetel Position, or Airborne. She got way too emotional/hysterical and it bothered me to no end. No way would I want Wilson and Cuddy to somehow be on House's team, not only would that be utterly ridiculous, but I think it would lessen their roles in House's life. CCF always got more screentime than Wilson and Cuddy but their roles in House's personal life were far less important than Wilson and Cuddy (especially Wilson.) I don't mind that Wilson gets little screentime because it usually makes for a great personal scene because he has a personal relationship with House, whereas the ducklings mostly talked about the case (you know when Cam could tear her thoughts from House.)

sasmom's latest BlogCritic article mentions the absence of the quiet, introspective scenes this season. I miss them as well, as I think bailey does. So, no, not "back to things as usual", but I hate to see some of the best elements of the show eliminated entirely. I miss the quiet, introspective scenes as much as I miss the clinic patients. House's interactions with the clinic patients provided many of the show's most humorous moments; this season the writers seem to be relying on stand-up comedian type of material - with those prankster newbies taking center stage. I believe it was Bailey who renamed this season "Frat House" (love it!) and after that last episode, I totally agree. "You Don't Want to Know" was the straw that broke this camel's back. I've been a good sport about the newby arc up to now, but that episode was just too ridiculous for words, in my opinion. To me, the absence of Chase and Cameron gave me a glimpse of what this show would be like if TPTB decide to write them out of the series. If I were more optimistic, I might hope that TPTB intended this chaotic frat house atmosphere as a reason for Cuddy to bring Chase and Cameron back into the fold and bring the focus back onto the patient, rather than the Prank of the Week.

I really am finding it hysterical that I just got tagged as world's biggest Chase fan. I think there are people in the Chase thread that are going to be jealous. :lol: Sorry. I just found it amusing that bailey got mistaken for a Chaser. There's no way I could have been engaged with any show if I could easily discard half the cast. But that's just me. In fact, I know it's me, because I'm truly not clicking with the new cast of caricatures they've added and, as a result, I'm not as engaged as I have previously been. That is me as well. I may be more invested in Chase than Cameron or Foreman, but I still can't imagine the show without them. It was the similiarities and contrasts between all of them that made the show what it was for me. Also I don't think actual amount of screentime is as important to me as meaningful interactions between the characters are. I think that's a lot of the problem with this season. Very few meaningful interactions between the core cast in favor of slapstick and characters that feel more like cartoons than characters with any substance (at least to me).

From the media thread: It's interesting because I consider the people who write these articles on "House" casual viewers, whereas we here are more of the die-hard variety. And the general consensus among Them seems to be that CCF is becoming peripheral in an otherwise wonderful season, while We generally have been debating the more nuanced aspects of what's happening to the show as a whole. Specifically, where Wilson and Cuddy fit into the new show if CCF are to become what Wilson and Cuddy served as for the past three seasons-- sounding boards. First off, I find anytime anyone uses the phrases: "Us" and "Them" it's antagonistic, so I'm not going to use them. Second off ... I don't want to go "boards on boards," but just look at the divisions in opinions on this board. This is pretty much an obsessive group of people, yet there's not any one set of opinions that's overwhelming the others. Yes, there are people who dislike Season Four but there is just as obsessive a group of watchers who are loving it, and a whole bunch of people in the middle. Thirdly ... I think a counter argument can be made that people on the boards who are dissecting every word also have the tendency to not see the forest for the trees -- and I count myself among those people not just studying trees, but the bark on the trees. (I'm not saying that you or me or anyone else out there is falling into this trap, only saying that if you're going to take one extreme and say that people who like it don't see the nuances, then you have to acknowledge the fact that pendulums swing both ways.)

That was exactly my point, though, that we all have different opinions that tend to be very staring-at-the-bark. I wasn't expressing my opinion there, I was talking about boards on the boards.

That was exactly my point, though, that we all have different opinions that tend to be very staring-at-the-bark. I wasn't expressing my opinion there, I was talking about boards on the boards. OK. Sorry I misunderstood.

Specifically, where Wilson and Cuddy fit into the new show if CCF are to become what Wilson and Cuddy served as for the past three seasons-- sounding boards. That was my major concern about the season, but considering the season so far it's been pretty unfounded. Wilson has been as been even more present than usual, seems to me, as has Cuddy (even though she's been inconsistently written, she's still been there). Even if they can't decide on how to write Cuddy, the writers seem to still like Cuddy and Wilson and haven't shown CCF as replacements. They've had no problems pretty much tossing CCF aside, apparently. As long as Cuddy and (especially Wilson) are safe, which they seem to be, I was surprised that I haven't cared much about CCF. I liked Chase probably the best, but it was a mild like (in that he was I guess my fourth favorite character on the show) but now that he's largely gone I haven't missed him. I think a couple of critics have touched on that surprise of not missing the original team. I never watched the show for Chase, Cameron or Foreman. I watched for House, and CCF fit in because I liked to see their reactions and how they connected to House. I think what season four has shown me is that they aren't that interesting to me on their own. In fact, now that they're away from House they've become basically wastes of time as characters, IMO. Even though I dislike Thirteen, I'm fine with seeing how these new characters develop as a team and learn from each other and how they interact with House.

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