Season 2 General Discussion

I also think that House and Stacy wouldn't have lasted. It's not how couples are in good times that predicts if they'll last, it's how tey act in bad times. If the infarction hadn't happened then something else would have (probably not AS bad, but some source of conflict) that would have broken them up. My objection to Stacy is that she was perfectly willing to have an affair with House while staying married to Mark, and I saw no evidence that the morality of this bothered her. IMO, she was using both men. I'm not condoning adultery here, but I felt sympathy for her. Sometimes fans (I'm not accusing you, but generalizing) forget a simple but powerful fact: Stacy loved Mark. To us he was just a block in the road to House's happiness, but not to her. She didn't want to lose him either. It's a terrible position to be in. Her initial reaction of "keep both!" isn't admirable but it is understandable. That's fine, but I think she should have left House alone. She had Mark, he had nobody. She had to know how he felt. IMO it was selfish and self-indulgent for her to say and do the things she did to him in Honeymoon. Like another person on this thread, I really started disliking her there. Of course, if she hadn't said that stuff, there goes the arc. I personally could have lived without it. I'd have been fine if Stacy had appeared in Three Stories and Honeymoon and never let on to House that she had feelings for him. They could have left it ambiguous.

I think she should have left House alone. She had Mark, he had nobody. She had to know how he felt. IMO it was selfish and self-indulgent for her to say and do the things she did to him in Honeymoon. IMO part of her behavior in Honeymoon was driven by the part of her that was convinced that Mark was likely to die. And if that means she does some dumb things through stress or fear or sheer panic to try to make House focus on treating Mark then fine. House is the one who said part of him wanted Mark to die - and that's a shocking thing coming from someone we've come to expect will go to great extremes to save a patient. Its not like House was blameless in her cheating on Mark - House was a very active & encouraging participant & both wanted her to consider leaving Mark & then pushed back when she was ready to do so. Thing about House-land, the norm in this 'verse is everyone cheats (it should be listed after "everyone lies") and it rarely gets condemned, its usually seen as something understandable & a given. And House doesn't seem to have a problem with Stacey cheating.

IMO part of her behavior in Honeymoon was driven by the part of her that was convinced that Mark was likely to die. But the worst of her actions in Honeymoon, in my opinion of course, came after Mark had been diagnosed and treatment had already began -- when she came to House to thank him, then twisted the knife by telling him that he was the one, but she'd never be with him.

I thought that's what peggy was referring to as well? If it was I agree. I do understand why she came to House directly to ask him to treat Mark, from the way it was written it wouldn't work any other way: Mark was refusing to be treated and kept insisting he wasn't sick. On a lighter note, ever since Mirror Mirror aired, I've wondered what would happen if the PotW were in a room with House and Stacy. Who would he mimic? Whoa, that is a tough one! Would it make a difference if they were still together or not?

I agree, Namaste. I remember having an argument on another forum (in a galaxy far, far away) when someone said it was not her job to provide closure for House. When she left him five years earlier it had not been her responsibility. But it was her responsibility to NOT deliberately take away whatever closure he had found. Part of the way she behaved at the hospital was weird -- like marching into the lab and telling Cameron that they were testing for the wrong thing (she repeatedly seemed to think that sleeping with House had given her some medical expertise) -- but most of her behavior was understandable although not admirable. The way she reacted in the restaurant was neither. And it set up her behavior as demanding he do her bidding as being the norm, lessening the value of the "her husband may be dying which is why she is acting this way" free pass. Once she began to work at the hospital, every time I began to feel less cold toward her, she would pull out a variation of that behavior from The Honeymoon and lose me again. House is the one who said part of him wanted Mark to die - and that's a shocking thing coming from someone we've come to expect will go to great extremes to save a patient. I think he was examining his own motives and trying to figure out how he felt and why he felt that. And, in spite of that ambivalence he did continue to search for the correct diagnosis -- and found it.

I don't think it would make a difference, Taiga. I think House would be the alpha vs. Stacy, just as he was alpha vs. Cuddy. The only person who can get House down on his knees is Wilson. (Ok get your minds out of the gutter, fellow hoyayers!)

I'm not sure which one was alpha. House and Stacy both seemed to feel that House needed to change in order for them to be together -- Stacy was perfect just the way she was.

And the fact that House refused to change... shows that he is in control, not her. Stacy could not get him to change. (And I mostly like Stacy, but good for House. Nobody should have to change to make another person happy.)

jair, I agree that House would be difficult to live with. I'm not saying there is something wrong with Stacy for wanting her partner to put her first. But the fact is, House is the way he is. Work will always come first for him. And in many cases, if you are with a doctor, that will be true to a certain extent. But if you really love House and want to be in a relationship with him, you have to accept him as he is. If you are not happy with the way he is, then I guess he is not the man for you. Expecting a man to change to make you happy is... arrogant, wrong in so many ways, and a huge mistake. If a woman wants to change a man so much... why the hell is she with him? She should go find someone who fits the mold she wants.

Though I had some issues with Stacy, I thought the problem with Stacy being lonely in a relationship with House highlighted something about House and relationships in general, not something specific to Stacy. I think he realised he would only go so far for a relationship, even one he really valued, and it would always come second to work. And he lives to work. I suspect House is not destined to be happy in a romantic relationship, and the end of his relationship with Stacy was foreshadowing of that. I think we saw this same trait at work during the Tritter arc when Wilson so badly wanted House to show he cared by giving him Cameron in the middle of a DDX when House was hot on the trail of a diagnosis. And House didn't even look up from the case. There's no doubt he loves Wilson in some capacity, but even for him, House didn't budge from his obsession. That's going to be difficult for anyone to live with. Good for House's patients, of course. Well, I don't think it's his work alone that keeps House from forming a satisfying relationship. Certainly, we've seen him put Stacy and Wilson on the back burner for a case, but that would simply make him a workaholic. I find his personality far more complex than that. As a military brat, he was never in one place long enough as a child to form permanent relationships. And if he did form a close relationship, it invariably ended. He no doubt learned to avoid the pain of separation by learning not to get too close at all. Besides, he was often immersed in a culture not his own, thus always the outsider. He is the brilliant and illustrious only child. As far as we know, he never got to form a bond with a relative close to his age - sibling, cousin, etc. So not only was he the odd duck out for being a genius, he had no one who could sympathize on his age level and offer him support. It would have been especially helpful for him to have had a sister. His father appears to have been someone who demanded that House adhere to his standards, with no room for variation or exception. Hardly the type of man you could open up to, unless you accepted his "insane moral compass". Better to keep your self to yourself. Exactly what House does. By the time he is back in the States for his higher education, he has already established this pattern of alienation and separation. I presume he has to play cultural catchup at that point (he must have made an intensive study of pop culture, considering he is so well versed in it - LOL!), further setting him apart. Add all of this to the fact that, by his own admission, he has had a difficult, PIA personality since three years old. And remember, there really aren't many people on his intellectual level. NOW you get to his passion for his work. But I don't see it so much as the reason as a refuge. The facts and logic are not likely to hurt you. They are emotionally neutral, therefore safe, and even the most difficult problem is inexplicted, not inexplicable. Human interaction, social ease, sexual attraction - all of this and more are a complete and bewildering mystery to him. In No Meaning, he is assiduously trying to work out formulae on the glass wall of the ICU, while the Shooter, House's other voice, is talking about all the things House is unable to master. House can't understand why it "just doesn't make sense". And his other self is trying to explain that he is using the wrong tools for the task. I'd actually be stunned if such a man were capable of easy emotional intimacy and unselfish, self-sacrificing behavior. Where on earth would he have acquired this knowledge? This is what he finds so astonishing about Mark. House cannot conceive of that level of risk. He has survived all his life by emotionally protecting himself. He is confounded by the idea of openly caring and putting someone else first, even briefly. For Stacy's faults (and finding it difficult to admit she's wrong is one she shares - with House!), the woman walked into a wasteland of psychological scars. I don't know if she wants so much for House to change, as to heal. Just as Wilson hopes that House will heal. House interprets that as change, but he is hardly a good judge of emotional issues, especially his own. Stacy and Wilson may both seem at times to be trying to change House. But they also both see a glimmer of what is already there - they so wish he could bring that out. That Stacy was able to keep his interest, open his heart and maintain her sanity for any length of time was a miracle in itself. And not one I expect will be repeated in House's lifetime.

Great post wary! Very fitting at House's personality. Stacy and Wilson may both seem at times to be trying to change House. But they also both see a glimmer of what is already there - they so wish he could bring that out. More than to bring that out, I think they wish they could bring that back. Wilson and Stacy (and Cuddy too) knew a House that we only had glimmers, once in a while. House changed, according to his own admission, but they still can see the old, funny, less bitter House somewhere and that's the House they try to bring back. Personally I never got the impression that Stacy wanted to change House. Actually, she seemed unable to see the changes, at least until NtK. It's her inability to perceive how much her decision had affected his life that make me dislike her. She seemed to think that his bitterness against her was a capital offense, and her reaction was always to be angry at him, because he was angry at her! They were very much alike, and I suspect they stayed together for five years because both of them had other things which came first and prevented they drove each other crazy. The infarction broke that balance.

Warycary, I agree with much of your post :D . It's very well worded and insightful. Where I think I diverge somewhat is in the extent that House's own personality plays into the mix. I think he is obsessive and always has been. When he gets on the trail of something, he shuts out what he views as extraneous stimuli--and that includes things that other people want him to find important. I think he would be like this no matter what his family background was. The fact that he is an army brat and had a father who didn't understand him and apparently crossed lines in his discipline policy he shouldn't have added emotional scars that made him wary of intimacy and didn't help him grow the skills to develop it. But the intimacy issue was actually raised this season when Wilson thought House would hire based on not liking people so he wouldn't risk intimacy and thus hurt. I don't think that's what we saw actually play out. He grew to care about the final five. He's not good with intimacy but he is capable of opening up. He connected on a much deeper level with Stacy and Wilson, and I think with Cuddy. I think it's aspects of his own personality, especially the obsessive aspects, that get and got in the way with them. When he told Stacy he was backing away from the relationship, I believed him when he said he recognised that though they both loved each other and he'd forgiven her actions, he wouldn't make her happy. He'd always be obsessive about his work and her needs would always be secondary. I think we saw this aspect of him with Wilson, too. In my reading of House, should the same type of situation arise again where Wilson demands that House show he care about something Wilson does indeed have the right to think House should care about, but House is in the middle of a case, House will keep right on working. I think we saw how much that hurt Wilson. As Nightowl says, one can accept it or not, but it's not likely to change, whatever work on intimacy issues House manages. It's what makes me think House will remain alone. Intimacy issues can be bridged. His obsessive personality is what it is. It helps his patients, but not his relationships.

In my reading of House, should the same type of situation arise again where Wilson demands that House show he care about something Wilson does indeed have the right to think House should care about, but House is in the middle of a case, House will keep right on working. I think we saw how much that hurt Wilson. In 'Babies and Bathwater', when House not only kept working but asked Wilson to help him with his patient after Wilson had been fired for trying to protect House, Wilson wasn't angry. I thought it was the fact that Wilson couldn't do his work because House didn't help him, and Wilson was in that position because of House, that made Wilson angry in 'Whack-A-Mole'. Great post wary, and I agree with jair that a lot of House's personality issues are intrinsic (alienating people since he was three, after all). One thing I have wondered about is As a military brat, he was never in one place long enough as a child to form permanent relationships. And if he did form a close relationship, it invariably ended. He no doubt learned to avoid the pain of separation by learning not to get too close at all. Besides, he was often immersed in a culture not his own, thus always the outsider. I keep seeing people saying that being a military brat made him the way he was, but I've known plenty of military brats who grew up just fine thank you. Also a lot of the time units are moved together, so some of your fellow military brats and neighbours would be moving with you.

As a military brat, he was never in one place long enough as a child to form permanent relationships. And if he did form a close relationship, it invariably ended. He no doubt learned to avoid the pain of separation by learning not to get too close at all. Besides, he was often immersed in a culture not his own, thus always the outsider. I keep seeing people saying that being a military brat made him the way he was, but I've known plenty of military brats who grew up just fine thank you. Also a lot of the time units are moved together, so some of your fellow military brats and neighbours would be moving with you. I think it depends on the kid's basic personality. Kids that are naturally gregarious probably do just fine. They make new friends and get reacquainted with old ones. (and sorry, I just noticed the "greg"-arious pun, but I'm not changing the word choice.) Also, I think that there seems to be a disproportionate number of military brats in acting and I've read interviews where some of them say that always being the new kid teaches them to fit in (act) quickly. Someone who is a loner, like House is, would have it tougher being the new kid. Add to that the fact that this new kid would invariably be the smartest kid in the class (something that often causes resentment) and it would be difficult for him to make friends. He would be a smartass with the teachers, but not in a way that would make him the class clown and he wouldn't do it for the other kids' entertainment -- he'd probably put them down the same way. That's not to say that he didn't make friends. He went climbing with a friend in Japan (the buraku story from Son of Coma Guy). He was friends with Crandall. His musical ability and the non-canon athleticism were probably the ways he interacted with his peers as a "friend" without forming real attachments.

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