I agree about the meh reaction to season one, even though DIYD was the first episode I ever saw, it took me a while to get into the show. To me there's one stellar episode ("Histories") and I even think "Autopsy" and "Three Stories" are overrated. I think S2 had the best POTWs.
I have to ask myself if that is my Wilson bias showing. He's my favorite character and S1 (with the exception of "Histories," obv) is his worst in terms of screentime and development. I have to borrow from one blogger and say that S1 House and Wilson seemed like buddies, not the best friends trapped in a twisted codependence like the H/W I know and love. And to me the more sarcastic, depressed, not as nice as he seems Wilson makes more sense as someone who's been House's best friend for over a decade, rather than the vaguely cheery "ladies' man" Wilson of S1. I don't know, he was just kind of....there, not very interesting.
I can understand not enjoying him and I could even understand not liking RSL but too cold? That's interesting, that's one thing I don't think I could ever accuse either of them of.
Ethan Hawke I think annoys me because he embodies the worst stereotypes about Gen Xers - for better or worse he became that poster boy. He was good in Training Day, though.
I can understand not enjoying him and I could even understand not liking RSL but too cold? That's interesting, that's one thing I don't think I could ever accuse either of them of.
Actually that's why RSL said Fox didn't want him for the part of Wilson, they thought he was "too cold" but Bryan Singer "went to battle" for him and so he got the job.
Lully- 03-18-2008
Full disclosure: season one is my favorite, though season two is close. Like others already have said, I like the ethical dilemmas, the nuances of each character slowly being revealed - I could never buy the Odd Couple arc without DIYD, or the Tritter arc without Detox and Babies&Bathwater. The clinic patients in season one were awesome. I can actually remember the episodes when I think about the clinic patients, something that doesn't happen in any other season. And Cuddy! I love season one Cuddy. At the time I liked her almost as much as I liked Wilson, which is something!
What I could have lived without was Cameron's crush. It completely doomed her character (IMO).
DrS wrote:
He (Wilson) is my favorite character and S1 (with the exception of "Histories," obv) is his worst in terms of screentime and development.
It's funny how we perceive a character we both love so much so differently. I think Wilson is since the beginning an intriguing character. Someone who could easily lie to House and who knows how much House cares about him (the Pilot). Someone who thinks that good intentions allows him to do whatever he wants (Fidelity and Detox). Someone who only have two good (?) things going on in his life (B&B). The Wilson we see now would be - for me - unbelievable without the season one Wilson.
Namaste- 03-18-2008
Full disclosure: season one is my favorite, though season two is close. Like others already have said, I like the ethical dilemmas, the nuances of each character slowly being revealed - I could never buy the Odd Couple arc without DIYD, or the Tritter arc without Detox and Babies&Bathwater. ...
I'm not trying to pick on Lully here, but to use the comments here as something that gets to me in a lot of the Season One/Season Four comparisons. (And since we don't have a season by season comparison thread, I'm putting this here.)
Part of the complaints about Season Four is that we don't know -- aren't engaged yet -- with the newbies after half a season. And yet, we knew almost nothing about Chase, especially, and Cameron -- beyond the Poor Dead Husband -- during the same time period. Even Foreman, beyond the stereotypical juvenile delinquent aspect wasn't fully there yet. All of that had to build, episode by episode. Then what we did learn about them, had people groaning (Cameron) or calling for Chase's firing (for betraying House to Vogler). I do think it's easier to look back in retrospect now and see what was developed over the course of a season, whereas the personalities and team dynamics of the newbies haven't had the luxury of a full season -- never mind a three seasons -- to develop yet.
Strictly in terms of Season One, to me there were more clunkers in terms of individual episodes: "Fidelity," "Poison," "Paternity," "Control," "Mob Rules," "Heavy," "Occam's Razor ..." (I'm not even much of a fan of "Histories," despite the reveal of Wilson's LLB, because I found it too anvilicious.) Mind you, there are tiny moments in each of those clunkers that I liked -- Georgia the syphillitic poetess in "Poison," for instance -- and also moments that gave us tiny bits of history that would be built on since then. But taken on their own? Not so much.
Poeia- 03-18-2008
There have been 12 episodes in S4. As you can't count "Alone," the new team has been in 11.
In S1, the 11th episode was Detox. Vogler did not exist yet. We had had an episode exploring each fellow's issues (DIYD for Chase, Histories for Foreman and Fidelity/Maternity for Cameron) despite the fact that the main emphasis had to be on introducing aspects of House at that point.
While my feelings about each of the originals has evolved, I was at least interested in each of them by that point. Granted, by now, I dislike Foreman (so, of course, he is the only original that we still get on our screen) and I'm sick of Cameron. But it took me some time to get there.
With the new ones, instead of being interested in the new ones I think:
Kutner - comic relief who has to learn to say "no" to House instead of being a sychophant. Oh, he learned it. All done.
Taub - good chemistry with Foreman (who I dislike.) Both Jewish male characters on the show are serial cheaters on their wives. Maybe I'd be slightly interested in why he decided to go for a very competitive fellowship when he was kicked out of his old practice. He could have gone into general medicine or relocated. That should take 15 minutes. All done.
13 - how many episodes have to center around this character before people start to actually fall asleep in front of their TVs? We have had mysteries and solutions about her shoved down our throats to the point where anvils such as Cameron's PDH and Foreman's problem with street people/homeless people/criminals seem absolutely subtle. All done (please!) about 8 episodes ago.
Namaste, funny - some of your individual clunkers are episodes I really liked.
Namaste- 03-18-2008
funny - some of your individual clunkers are episodes I really liked.
Which is why, obviously, everything comes down to personal taste. I'd say that half of the first season episodes I had no desire to watch a second time except for one or two scenes. So to me, every time someone says: "Why can't we go back to the XYZ of the first season" I think: "Who'd want to revisit that?"
DrSpaceman- 03-18-2008
I forgot about Babies & Bathwater, that's the other standout episode of S1. Detox also had great scenes, the closing actually may be my favorite House/Wilson scene, just because it perfectly captured their dynamic.
I didn't dislike Wilson in S1 by any means, and I agree that the building was essential to his later character, it's just not the Wilson that IMO became so intriguing and raised so many issues.
LightMyCandle- 03-18-2008
Actually that's why RSL said Fox didn't want him for the part of Wilson, they thought he was "too cold" but Bryan Singer "went to battle" for him and so he got the job.
Yeah, I know but in DPS, I just felt so much for his and EH's characters that I could not imagine them as cold. I realize this is only a personal interpretation though. I actually hated RSL before I saw DPS.
it's just not the Wilson that IMO became so intriguing and raised so many issues.
I agree. Wilson was still my favorite character in S1 but to me, he started out so...boringly normal, which I know was just to later reveal just how much of a front he puts up, I loved how complicated he became. We only got glimpses of that in S1.
have to borrow from one blogger and say that S1 House and Wilson seemed like buddies, not the best friends trapped in a twisted codependence like the H/W I know and love.
That was me and I totally stand by that. Just like how screwed-up Wilson is, I felt we only got glimpses of how deeply intertwined these two men were in S1. They always had chemistry, I bought that they were friends but they were just lacking the real codependence that exists now, JMO.
Lully- 03-18-2008
Sometimes I feel like season one was an arc on itself - and Vogler, Cam's crush, House's addiction were inserted there to reinforce some plot points which would be developed in the future - I hope this made some sense, really...
But I do think that it would be impossible to build the relationships that we see on the show now without some anvilicious episodes - and I agreed Namaste, Histories, despite being one of my favorite episodes of the whole show was anvilicious and if it had been presented in season two or three wouldn't work, but at that time we didn't know the characters all that much, so what we saw was believable and we could connect with their stories.
Though, I do wonder if I had started to see the show only in season two, if I would feel so attached to the season one... Maybe not...
LMC wrote:
I loved how complicated he (Wilson) became. We only got glimpses of that in S1.
True. And those little glimpses were what did him so intriguing for me. He seemed so normal (boring, like you said) and yet he was House's friend. House accepted cases just because that guy asked him to. Something had to be wrong with that guy!
If he had started the way he is now, part of the fun would be lost - at least for me...
ixtab- 03-18-2008
Maybe using "too cold" was wrong, maybe aloof or detached would have been a better word, my point was I could never truly connect with the character they were portraying, which is still true of Hawke, who I actively avoid, so haven't seen Before Sunrise nor Training Day. I never liked DPS, sorry about that.
Lully said I think Wilson is since the beginning an intriguing character. Someone who could easily lie to House and who knows how much House cares about him (the Pilot). Someone who thinks that good intentions allows him to do whatever he wants (Fidelity and Detox). Someone who only have two good (?) things going on in his life (B&B). The Wilson we see now would be - for me - unbelievable without the season one Wilson.
I do agree that H-W seemed more like buddies than best buds, but I think S1 served to make clear why Wilson is perceived as the "nice one", we need to know/see his outside armour before we got to explore his murkier depths. Which I guess could also be said of the other characters, so sadly some episodes suffer from trying to clumsily fit character information into episodes.
Fave Episodes: "Maternity", "Damned If You Do" (Still my favorite Xmas Ep), "Detox", "Histories" (Mostly for Wilson) , "Occams Razor".
LightMyCandle- 03-18-2008
I never liked DPS, sorry about that.
There's certainly no need to apologize. I can see how it's not for everyone. It's clearly not for Roger Ebert. If I didn't already know about the ending before I saw it, it would have caught me way off gaurd. It is my favorite movie, even before I developed hardcore crushes on RSL or EH. Well, it's tied for my favorite movie, depending on what kind of mood I'm in. I personally, identified very strongly with Ethan's character in DPS.
but I think S1 served to make clear why Wilson is perceived as the "nice one", we need to know/see his outside armour before we got to explore his murkier depths.
I agree. I get that it was necessary for Wilson to be portrayed this way in the first season, I just prefer the darker, more complex Wilson we have now. I still appreciate S1 Wilson and I'm glad they peeled away at him slowly.
Can I be shallow for a moment? Everyone (except Cameron) had serious hair issues this season. S1 Cuddy was the best characterization of her but hair that long does not work for her, IMO. Chase too, was in desperate need of a haircut. Foreman with hair made him look very short and stocky to me. Wilson's floppy hair didn't do much for me either, I prefer it fluffier like it is now. As for House, I'm not a fan of the curls. But Cameron? *drools* I swear, if she had never opened her mouth I would have had the biggest girlcrush on her.
ixtab- 03-18-2008
Oh, yes let's be shallow!! So glad you mention the hair, God, horrible all the way thru. I also like the way Cameron looked in S1 better than in any other season, she look beautiful with her roundish face, not a big fan of the skinny look.
LightMyCandle- 03-18-2008
I also like the way Cameron looked in S1 better than in any other season, she look beautiful with her roundish face, not a big fan of the skinny look.
So agree. She was just captivating to look at in S1, IMO, then she lost weight, she started messing with her hair and now...eh, she's pretty I suppose in a boring generic way but I thought she was stunning in the first season. She looks better with a rounder face.
Namaste- 03-18-2008
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the first season was bad -- just, to me, the least exciting. I've watched from the first episode, and I've loved all the seasons in different ways and think that each season has served its own purpose, from House as he might have been if things with Stacy had worked out in the second season, to the exploration of his relationship with Wilson, Cuddy and Vicodin in the third to making the slightest attempt to embrace change and finding that change can be good in the fourth,.
To me, the first season is the foundation. It set the characters, set the tone, gave us the first glimpses of major themes that we've seen explored in different textures time and again -- addiction, faith, ethics, humanity, you name it. Foundations are rarely exciting, architecturally speaking, but they're absolutely essential, and everything will fall apart without a solid foundation. So I recognize how important and how vital many of those "clunker" episodes are -- and I'm willing to allow for clunkers now and in the future because I know what those episodes may lead to eventually.
DrSpaceman- 03-20-2008
To me, the first season is the foundation. It set the characters, set the tone, gave us the first glimpses of major themes that we've seen explored in different textures time and again -- addiction, faith, ethics, humanity, you name it. Foundations are rarely exciting, architecturally speaking, but they're absolutely essential, and everything will fall apart without a solid foundation. So I recognize how important and how vital many of those "clunker" episodes are -- and I'm willing to allow for clunkers now and in the future because I know what those episodes may lead to eventually.
Wonderful way of putting it and I completely agree.
It's interesting to me that the A-list director (Singer) directed probably the worst directed episode of the series, IMO, the pilot! I was going to compliment him on "Paternity" but looked it up and he didn't direct that, it was "Occam's Razor."
Tape is what totally convinced me that both RSL and EH (and Uma Thurman but that's beside the point) are fantastic actors. I literally cannot stop watching that movie once I've started it. Three actors with no special effects or huge, elaborate sets to rely on, just each other and the dialogue, to me that's when you know real talent. LMC, you'd love Ebert and Roeper's video video of it on their website: they both loved that film and say essentially the same thing. Roeper: "And here's another movie where there are no special effects and it's just fascinating." Ebert: "There's no place for the actors to hide, they are on-camera all the time and they are so good. And you almost feel sorry for them that career considerations mean that these three actors often appear in films where they can't show that they are this good."
LightMyCandle- 03-20-2008
Ebert: "There's no place for the actors to hide, they are on-camera all the time and they are so good. And you almost feel sorry for them that career considerations mean that these three actors often appear in films where they can't show that they are this good."
Wow, I actually agree with Ebert on something. That rarely happens. :shock: *runs to watch review*