Reality is Almost Always Wrong: Spoiler Discussion Thread

House made sure that he articulated that this was exactly what he might face if he continued to ask House to do the DBS, and Wilson still wanted him to do it. We just saw that he felt he would be able to handle this prospect if it resulted in saving Amber. Okay, perhaps I wasn't being clear, that was still before Amber was dead and Wilson was dealing with potentially losing her. He's well familiar with that feeling. You can think about it all you want and probably have an idea of how horrible it feels to lose someone you love but you can't actually know until it happens and at the time Wilson asked House to do the DBS, it hadn't happened. Now that it has happened, he knows how bad it feels and maybe he doesn't want to go through that again, especially now that Amber's gone and if House dies, Wilson really will have no one left. And again, I don't think Wilson's running away will be just about that, I know anger will probably have a lot to do with it, anger at House for being selfish, reckless, and making it all about him, and having it finally not only result in a death but the death of someone Wilson loved. filey, that's a great analysis of LLB wrt how Wilson has been able to stay with House.

Jair, with all respect, I won't go there again. I simple do not agree at all with your assessment on any of the above (your last post). Sticking a knife in your office electric socket, even in the admin wing of a hospital, the same as having a medical procedure done on you by two doctors. Uh, no. Also it served no real purpose. The tainting of his own blood also unnecessary when running another test would have been more reasonable. (There was no such option left re. Amber.) WILSON:You risked your life again. You couldn't be sure he had amyloidosis. HOUSE: You can't be sure that I couldn't be sure. WILSON: You did one test, it was negative. HOUSE: Inconclusive. WILSON: Well then, by all means, flood your body with possibly lethal blood. House even admitted worrying about him distracted the team from the actual patient. Another reason not to do it. House knows that to Wilson he has value that has very little to do with him being a doctor. If he thought he had no value to Wilson as a friend as selfish as he can be I think now House would just let Wilson go. Excepting for that H/W are a two way street, there we agree. Although on particulars even there we diverge. House never had a problem with why Wilson was spending time with him and it benefited House as much as Wilson for different reasons. I doubt any one factor contributed to the demise of all of Wilson's marriages, Amber simply highlighted the one that she was aware of (from Wilson's version of events, the wives most likely would have other tales to tell) and that at the time she feared would affect her. I guess we'll have to wait and see what reasons Wilson gives for leaving and if House has any residual negative feelings about what happened between them in W's H.

filey wrote: Amber simply highlighted the one that she was aware of (from Wilson's version of events, the wives most likely would have other tales to tell) ITA, several times, with all of your latest posts, Filey. But this brought back an idea that I had while watching LTD: how Amber knew what were the reasons of the wives bitterness? After, what? seven weeks of the relationship? The only POV she had was Wilson's - unless that she, like House, was calling the wives and asking questions :shock: - and yet, in NMMNG she told House that she knew he was trying to mess up with her relationship with Wilson and that she only had two solutions: or she'd leave Wilson or she'd force House to leave. She was no fool, she mentioned Wilson's behaviour towards the wives at that moment because that was what he was doing, acting in the same way he used to with the exes in that particular situation. This doesn't mean that she didn't know about House's influence, just that it was not the case with the mattress. And back to the speculation... I guess we'll have to wait and see what reasons Wilson gives for leaving and if House has any residual negative feelings about what happened between them in W's H. I don't think House has any negative feelings towards Wilson, but I do expect him to use it against him trying to make him to change his mind about leaving. About Wilson's anger: he is probably angry about everything, but he may not realize consciously the real reasons why he is running away. It's House's genius that will have to figure it out. Cue for the road trip.

ITA completely with your last post jair. I'm in the "both men need to evaluate the relationship" camp, but not because Wilson needs to protect himself from House's self-destructive tendencies. He just used House's willingness to risk himself. I think he'll be angry that House got drunk and called him in order to spend time with him, but again, I don't think this relationship is dysfunctional in that respect all on House's account. Wilson chose to spend time with House as a way to avoid dealing with his relationship messes--his own passive aggressive traits mess up his marriages, as Amber pointed out. Wilson was trying to change his spots, but he did have a hand in shaping the way the two men relate, so I think if Wilson is willing to blame House for a random series of events because House tried to tread down the same path they've been in for years with Wilson's complicity, he's still in avoidance mode rather than facing things. Facing that experience woke him up to the idea that he might not be able to handle it if one day House was gone. House made sure that he articulated that this was exactly what he might face if he continued to ask House to do the DBS, and Wilson still wanted him to do it. We just saw that he felt he would be able to handle this prospect if it resulted in saving Amber. I don't see him suddenly deciding he couldn't face it, after all. I think he's going to be angry at House, not fearing he could lose him. We have no reason to think Wilson hasn't dealth with the death of a loved one before. Thus we have no evidence that he didn't know exactly what he was asking House to do with the DBS and the ramifications thereof. We know Wilson is perfectly happy to manipulate and deceive patients, ignoring their best interests if it serves his. House pointed that out to him when, at the end of Insensitive, he told House he could guilt her into giving him in a spinal nerve. But House knew it couldn't help her at this point so wouldn't do it even to save himself a life of pain. He had earlier rationalized that the biopsy of a spinal nerve might lead to a diagnosis of the patient, but once that was no longer the case, he couldn't go there. Both men's characters are complicated and have dark sides. But they have also shown they can care about a few other people. House seems to me to have the greater heart, having been asked to make the ultimate sacrifice and going along with it, even though he didn't think it was necessary. If Wilson is still angry at him after that, then he really should move on.

We know Wilson is perfectly happy to manipulate and deceive patients, ignoring their best interests if it serves his. Wow... :shock: Talking about different perceptions... When exactly did he do this? In Insensitive he was talking about what House was wanting to do, not about what he - Wilson - would have done. Are there other examples of this that I'm not aware of?

At the end of the episode, when House was looking at the recovering patient through the glass I think, Wilson suggested that House guilt her into giving him the nerve and House refused. House had wanted to do it as long as he could convince himself it would help with the diagnosis (and he was on paper thin ice there), but once he had the diagnosis and it was clearly proven to be unnecessary, he wouldn't do it. Wilson had no compunctions about suggesting that he use her guilt to obtain her compliance. I'll see what other examples I can come up with after work. And yes, there are widely different perceptions of how these characters are viewed. Cool that we can discuss those perceptions, though!

Oh, it's certainly cool! I'm always amazed of the myriad of interpretation we have of one scene or even one line - not to mention the looks exchanged! I wonder if this happens in other fandom or House is somehow special. when House was looking at the recovering patient through the glass I think, Wilson suggested that House guilt her into giving him the nerve and House refused Yes, I know you're talking about that scene. But what I saw on that exchange was Wilson being his usual dry, sarcastic self. I don't believe for a moment that he truly wanted to convince House to ask her for the nerve. It was like "well, now she's awake and conscious, go and see if you'll have luck with your idea". He knew that House wouldn't do such thing - it was part of their usual banter.

I haven't seen the episode recently, but in "Family" (3.20 if I recall correctly) didn't House yell at Wilson for not manipulating the family, who were acting for the patient? Didn't he berate Wilson, and call him a coward for not being manipulative? Wilson has screwed up many times, including with patients (Grace, e.g.), but it seems generally to be motivated, however misguidedly, by the other person's best interests. Someone upthread mentioned that perhaps Wilson's resignation in S5 is an attempt to take Amber's advice to start taking care of himself instead of doing what he thinks others need. I think that would be awesome -- and would hopefully lead to fewer lectures and less nagging of House.

Filey wrote: Sticking a knife in your office electric socket, even in the admin wing of a hospital, the same as having a medical procedure done on you by two doctors. Uh, no. Also it served no real purpose. The tainting of his own blood also unnecessary when running another test would have been more reasonable. (There was no such option left re. Amber.) The electrical shock experiment served a purpose for House, and he made sure he did everything necessary to survive it. The possibly tainted blood taking was not unnecessary if he wanted Finn to live--the point he made was that they did not have time to complete all the blood cultures before Finn died. He was willing to risk his life to save Finn's and that's why Wilson was mad. He didn't want to House to go that far, even if the tests were inconclusive and the patient dying. And it's this type of lecturing that I think he no longer has any grounds to make, because he asked House to do something even riskier and more likely to cause damage to save Amber. You don't get to jump back and forth over that line when it suits you. Excepting for that H/W are a two way street, there we agree. Although on particulars even there we diverge. House never had a problem with why Wilson was spending time with him and it benefited House as much as Wilson for different reasons. Actually, I'm pleased to say that I think we agree on this one :D . I too think it benefitted both men and House definitely did not have a problem with it. Sorry if I was unclear on that. LMC wrote: Now that it has happened, he knows how bad it feels and maybe he doesn't want to go through that again, especially now that Amber's gone and if House dies, Wilson really will have no one left. How do you know Wilson has never faced losing a loved one? We know he knows what it was like for his brother to disappear from his life. Do we know all his close family members are still alive? I think the moment with House where House asked Wilson is he really wanted him to risk his life to save Amber was there to show that Wilson was willing to do this. I can believe that Wilson in his grief could hold the phonecall against House, though hopefully not once he processes things, but I can't see him actually holding House's willingness to risk himself against him when his latest death bed escapade was at Wilson's behest. I think if there's one thing I think he won't lecture on again, it's that.

How do you know Wilson has never faced losing a loved one? We know he knows what it was like for his brother to disappear from his life. Do we know all his close family members are still alive? I don't know, I said earlier that we have no evidence that says that he does. Maybe he has lost someone to death, but as of right now, there's nothing that says he has and that's all I can go off of right now. I can believe that Wilson in his grief could hold the phonecall against House, though hopefully not once he processes things, but I can't see him actually holding House's willingness to risk himself against him when his latest death bed escapade was at Wilson's behest. Maybe we've crosses wires again. I did not mean to imply that Wilson would hold risking his (House's) life against him. I just meant that he wants to get away from House before House does actually die, that doesn't mean he's angry about it (angry about Amber, certianly), it just means that emotionally, he doesn't want to deal with it anymore. I really can't repeat myself on this matter anymore, I stand by my theory, I don't think it's unthinkable and I don't think it will be the only thing motivating Wilson. I don't think Wilson wants House to die and going by what you say, perhaps Wilson feels that he doesn't have the right to lecture House on risking his life anymore, if that's the case then there really is nothing he can do to try and stop House and it's only a matter of time. Maybe he doesn't want to wait around, unable to do anything, for his friend to get himself killed. We'll just have to wait and see how the whole thing plays out. I haven't seen the episode recently, but in "Family" (3.20 if I recall correctly) didn't House yell at Wilson for not manipulating the family, who were acting for the patient? Didn't he berate Wilson, and call him a coward for not being manipulative? Wilson said, "I also believe in patients making their own choices." I don't see him as someone who manipulates patients for his own ends. I know he's manipulative and I know he's good at it, but I don't think he uses patients to get what he wants. I really believe that he has their best interests at heart, even if he's wrong.

I haven't seen the episode recently, but in "Family" (3.20 if I recall correctly) didn't House yell at Wilson for not manipulating the family, who were acting for the patient? Didn't he berate Wilson, and call him a coward for not being manipulative? Yes, he does, but only because Wilson doesn't manipulate them at House's command, not because he can't be manipulative. House asks him to talk to the family because he admires how manipulative Wilson can be. We saw Wilson teaching Foreman the techniques he uses when he tells people they are dying--he knows exactly how to control the emotions of the situation--and we saw him manipulate House in Detox and in Meaning. And with the anti-depressants. We saw him suggest to House how to successfully get the girl to offer him a nerve in the CIPA ep--and to me neither Wilson's suggestion nor House's rejoinder sounded like banter. I don't think we're supposed to think that Wilson is not manipulative, but rather that he doesn't always manipulate to House's command.

Agreed, jair. Exactly. Also, FYC, ixtab has compiled an interesting list of Wilson's lies/manipulations over in the Wilson thread. I have a different view of some of the good/bad determinations (esp. Wilson's Heart) but it's a good reminder of how deceitful he is behind that boyishly handsome face. (I mean, the first thing he does in the whole series is lie to House about his "cousin", thereby using their friendship to manipulate House: it's who he is. If he wants something done, he's a big "end justifies the means" guy. Want House to take ADs? Dose him secretly.)

Finally, thanks to the Sepinwall interview with David Shore, something new. (Linked in the spoiler thread.) Interesting bits: Foreman brings a case to Cameron and Chase. I thought it was going to be Cameron finding a case? Or maybe Foreman fears House is too distracted by the Wilson issue? Or maybe he wants to set himself up to prove that he can run his own case? And the PI is "early in the season," and again, Shore repeats that House hires him to break into a patient's house, rather than having his team do it. I wonder if that's because he's discovered that his team has a tendency to ask for the keys (as we saw in "It's a Wonderful Lie") or if he's told the break-ins are raising questions and he has to have them lay low.

View Full Version: Reality is Almost Always Wrong: Spoiler Discussion Thread