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edicotte- 03-09-2008

On a related but trivial note, I am reminded of an TV show called "The Virginian" where the title character is never named He was always called the Virginian. I'm always reminded of Ellison's "Invisible Man"; The reader never learns the name of the protagonist, thus adding to the invisiblilty of the character in the world of the novel. In an unrelated topic, Why does the entire new team have to go? In my mind, Thirteen would quit(or get fired or get killed off doesn't really matter how), House can hire Cameron back because he feels she isn't living up to her potential in the ER, and Chase.... Well, I haven't thought up a good spot for Chase yet, but it could end up in some good drama if he felt left out becasue he was the only one NOT working for House again.

vitawash99- 03-09-2008

The biggest problem I see with new team (other than Thirteen's drawn out mystery and Kutner's sitcom antics) is that they seem more designed to interact with the old team than anything else, and yet haven't. There seems to be a disconnect between them and House and each other (for all of their bickering CCF did strike me as a team). I'm not sure CCF ever had a team dynamic so much as an extremely dysfunctional family dynamic...but they still had interpersonal dynamics, from episode one. The new bunch hasn't quite nailed theirs down, because it doesn't seem like their interpersonal relationships have been granted much importance yet. Taub, Kutner, and Thirteen spent more of the Survivor storyline (and in some cases, had better chemistry) with others who weren't hired. I think they've had good character exposition moments here and there, but to paraphrase my statistics textbook, there has been no significant interaction effect yet. :wink:

jair- 03-10-2008

The new bunch hasn't quite nailed theirs down, because it doesn't seem like their interpersonal relationships have been granted much importance yet. Taub, Kutner, and Thirteen spent more of the Survivor storyline (and in some cases, had better chemistry) with others who weren't hired. I think you're right that they have all had chemistry with someone so far, so I'm pretty sure the team will develop it's own personality. Interestingly, the writers have been so far been interested in developing Foreman's chemistry with the team more than the intrateam dynamics. He's had good scenes with Taub and 13. The writers are trying to integrate him I think into the new mix. I think it's working. Kutner seems to play more off House. Mind you, I thought Kutner and 13 had some interesting scenes going in the Christmas ep, so the seeds are being sown.

bailey- 03-10-2008

I'm not sure CCF ever had a team dynamic so much as an extremely dysfunctional family dynamic...but they still had interpersonal dynamics, from episode one. The new bunch hasn't quite nailed theirs down, because it doesn't seem like their interpersonal relationships have been granted much importance yet. Taub, Kutner, and Thirteen spent more of the Survivor storyline (and in some cases, had better chemistry) with others who weren't hired. I think they've had good character exposition moments here and there, but to paraphrase my statistics textbook, there has been no significant interaction effect yet. :wink: Yes, I think you're totally right here. But to jair's point above, the fact that--after they are maybe, (slowly but maybe)--coming along after twelve episodes, i.e. the majority of the season, is one of the most elemental problems of the season. Unlike real life where teams can and do take a long time to gel, a television show needs to have their dynamics in place pronto. Especially when they're filling the hole of a previous dynamic that clicked on all cylinders. TPTB have essentially wasted an entire season on a "let's get to know you" theme. Then again, I think alot of the writing and acting has been a real shit fest this season. It is no wonder that the episodes that work best are the ones where the non-function "team" are pushed away from the spotlight.

jair- 03-10-2008

But to jair's point above, the fact that--after they are maybe, (slowly but maybe)--coming along after twelve episodes, i.e. the majority of the season, is one of the most elemental problems of the season. Had the team actually been in place for 12 eps, that would be a problem. Since we had a very different structure this half season, with first no team and then an evolving team, I don't think the actual team gelling now is out of place. I think different character combinations had chemistry all along, so there was no lack of chemistry on the screen. It is no wonder that the episodes that work best are the ones where the non-function "team" are pushed away from the spotlight. I think the two best eps this season were Ugly and DEC, with Frozen a strong third. The new team were front and centre for two of them. Especially when they're filling the hole of a previous dynamic that clicked on all cylinders. I didn't see CC&F clicking on all cylinders. I think Foreman was always hit and miss, with season three a solid miss for his character. I was ready to boot him out the door by the end of last season. This season has been far better for him. Chase has always been a favourite with me, and I was so tired of him always getting the least time of the three of them. I thought he was the strongest actor and the best written character, but that never translated into much until the last half of season three. I miss having him on screen more, but I'm still more interested in seeing him go forward in the new structure than fall back into something like early season three dynamics--bleah. And Cameron has always had divided fan reaction. I found her poorly written with mediocre acting which mysteriously translated into way more screentime than Chase. I know she has a fanbase who didn't feel this way. The dynamics as a team sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. I had no idea why Cameron turned on Chase during early season three--there seemed a lot of gratuitious cruelty there that was never addressed. I think Cameron's crush storyline took over her character so much that her dynamics with Chase and Foreman were odd. That all got a lot better in late season three, but I don't remember many fans of Cameron thinking so. All in all, CC&F had issues separately and as a team, which didn't stop them from still being enjoyable. I think the new team will, as well.

vitawash99- 03-10-2008

Interestingly, the writers have been so far been interested in developing Foreman's chemistry with the team more than the intrateam dynamics. He's had good scenes with Taub and 13. The writers are trying to integrate him I think into the new mix. I've noticed this, too, and it seems to work really well. I guess my thought is that I don't see any differences yet in the way say, Thirteen speaks to Taub or Kutner, versus the way that Foreman has demonstrated different relationships with Taub, Thirteen, and Chase since Games - all in brief, but vibrant scenes. (And I think it works both ways, since those scenes also demonstrate Taub's relaxed confidence, Thirteen's moment of stunned vulnerability and recovery from it, and Chase's twerpy younger brother behavior.) It may be that they haven't totally decided yet how they want them to relate. But hey, now they've had plenty of time to think about it. :D Amusingly enough, this does support the idea that they really weren't sure who they were going to hire. Otherwise, they could have set the development of the relationships between the keepers in motion earlier.

LightMyCandle- 03-10-2008

Amusingly enough, this does support the idea that they really weren't sure who they were going to hire. Otherwise, they could have set the development of the relationships between the keepers in motion earlier. Unless they were trying to keep the people who weren't spoiled guessing. Having the three develop relationships with candidates other than the three that made it in.

jair- 03-10-2008

I guess my thought is that I don't see any differences yet in the way say, Thirteen speaks to Taub or Kutner, versus the way that Foreman has demonstrated different relationships with Taub, Thirteen, and Chase since Games - all in brief, but vibrant scenes. I agree that Foreman's scenes have been very well done in establishing his relationships with the new team. I think I noticed 13 with a different dynamic with Kutner, though, than Taub. She's much bossier with Kutner (I'm remembering the Christmas ep here) and more matter of fact with Taub. But for sure there's lots of room yet to establish the relationships.

Ranee- 03-14-2008

Anyone watching Cane & Abel on Fox tonight - new promo just aired!

bailey- 03-14-2008

Anyone watching Cane & Abel on Fox tonight - new promo just aired! I wasn't planning on watching it....but now I'm breathless with anticipation! Please tell me there's lots more 13 to look forward to! I shan't sleep tonight until I know for sure!

extra_cat- 03-14-2008

Anyone watching Cane & Abel on Fox tonight - new promo just aired! Let me guess... 13's next mystery will investigate the true color of her hair? I didn't see it. What was to it?

sautomne- 03-14-2008

Please tell me there's lots more 13 to look forward to! I shan't sleep tonight until I know for sure! Oh is there ever! Didn't you know? She's just so intriguing. Everyone's all a-twitter. "That beautiful, high cheekboned brunette! What's her pathology, I wonder." Fans are just waiting on tenterhooks. 8)

DrSpaceman- 03-14-2008

I saw the promo but didn't notice any new scenes. It was just quick clips from season four and promo'ing the move to Mondays.

galaxygirl- 03-15-2008

Marykir posted something from Ausiello on the Spoilers Only thread, here's a part of it and I'm still shaking my head. Sex and the City studmuffin Jason Lewis has signed on to guest-star in a pivotal post-strike episode of House that will reveal a shocking secret about Doc Crotchety: He's a closeted soap fan! Seriously dude, watch the show. There is nothing shocking about House liking soaps. Really, we already know :roll: God, I hate him.

iamdaffodils- 03-15-2008

Marykir posted something from Ausiello on the Spoilers Only thread, here's a part of it and I'm still shaking my head. Sex and the City studmuffin Jason Lewis has signed on to guest-star in a pivotal post-strike episode of House that will reveal a shocking secret about Doc Crotchety: He's a closeted soap fan! Seriously dude, watch the show. There is nothing shocking about House liking soaps. Really, we already know :roll: God, I hate him. I'm right there with your Ausiello hate. We've only seen House watching soaps since, umm, let's see...the pilot episode.