Reality is Almost Always Wrong: Spoiler Discussion Thread

I've taken my answer to some of these comments on House over to the Gregory House thread, since a long discussion about House's character doesn't seem to fit in the spoiler discussion thread.

I'm with you DOB. He was a far more social creature pre-infarction. Of that we have plenty evidence: he played paintball--Drs vs. Lawyers. That's about as social as it gets. He was a golfer--typical (if not cliched) doctor stuff. Played lacross--a team sport. This isn't a guy who stuck only to himself pre-infarction. He had a reputation, spoke at conferences, maintained a relationship...

For one thing, I've never believed that post-infarction House could have maintained a 5 year relationship with a woman like Stacey. I'm sure he was always brilliant, quirky, and a bit prickly, but I suspect he was far easier to get along with than the current Gregory House. I agree DOB1234, though Stacy says House was more or less the same before the infarction, Wilson notices a difference. Perhaps its a mistake to take House's maxim that people don't change at face value. But how would Stacy know? She hadn't seen him in five years. She was being territorial (i.e. SHE knows him better than anyone)

He said "I've been alienating people since I was three" as if it were a medal of distinction. Ariadne, I always find your pov refreshing and as coming from the real world. jim, that's interesting that you see WAVW in House and Cuddy. I've been thinking about them that way for most of the season. How have you been thinking of House and Cuddy as Martha and George? To clarify, I didn't connect the characters of the two pieces, only the plot and themes that were explored, illusions that support our lives and how some are necessary and some harmful. Martha has a fierce viciousness and anger that doesn't translate to House in the least. (IMDramaticWorldO)

Lisa: I'm eager to see what they do with the House and Cuddy storyline. The baby is fine, but I don't think it's really about that. I'm sure it will be woven through, but it grounds her to have a child. I think it gives her more of a life than she had. But ultimately it's not about that, the show is not about that. The show is about the hospital and the inner relationships at the hospital. I have a feeling this is going to be quickly construed as Lisa saying she only cares about "Huddy," but before that happens -- I think she's on the right path with this statement. Cuddy's priorities are one thing, but for the show House, House's relationship with Cuddy should always take precedence over Cuddy's relationship with the baby. House's relationship with Cuddy shouldn't be the main priority for the show -- that honor goes to House's relationship with himself -- but, yes, House/Cuddy > Cuddy's baby in terms of screen time.

Could someone refresh my memory on when Stacey said this? I remember that she went in to ask Cuddy what he had been like after she left. If she didn't know what he had been like, how could she have said he was the same? :? She said it to Cameron in the lab while Cameron was running tests on Mark and wanting to know what House was like before the infarction. It was a mostly territory-marking comment from Stacy because there's no way she could have known what House was currently like. I have a feeling this is going to be quickly construed as Lisa saying she only cares about "Huddy," but before that happens -- I think she's on the right path with this statement. Cuddy's priorities are one thing, but for the show House, House's relationship with Cuddy should always take precedence over Cuddy's relationship with the baby. House's relationship with Cuddy shouldn't be the main priority for the show -- that honor goes to House's relationship with himself -- but, yes, House/Cuddy > Cuddy's baby in terms of screen time. Not saying that Cuddy and her baby should get massive amounts of screentime because god knows I have about zero interest in seeing that, but the very fact that the baby now exists should actually stop Huddy in it's tracks. That it doesn't reeks of neglected baby storyline and doesn't really put Cuddy in the best light. Then again, I've always thought the Cuddy wants a baby storyline was just meant to gin up a bunch more screentime for LE, not actually serve as any sort of logical character development vis-a-vis Cuddy and House.

It could go either way. I think it depends on whether Cuddy puts the baby first or second to a relationship with House. She's now got a baby who is completely dependent on her so if she shouldn't really ditch Rachel to go babysit House (as House fantasized in Under My Skin). Realistically, House is going to have to be willing to take second place in Cuddy's life if he truly does want to have a relationship with her but that's not who House is, or has been up to this point. Will the show conveniently forget about Rachel's existence and focus only on how Cuddy relates to House, or will Rachel be a part of Cuddy's larger existence and she and House will have to deal with that as they explore a possible relationship? Like Stacy's marriage to Mark, Rachel is the perfect excuse for leaving House single and alone at the end of the relationship but I don't think that's what KJ has in mind for them. Then again, I've always thought the Cuddy wants a baby storyline was just meant to gin up a bunch more screentime for LE, not actually serve as any sort of logical character development vis-a-vis Cuddy and House. I heard that LE suggested it in season 2 for Cuddy because she thought that if the show went on for a number of years she might get pregnant herself during the run and wanted it in there as an explanation for Cuddy being pregnant. The sudden revival in season 5 might well be, as you say, to gin up more screentime for LE. How have you been thinking of House and Cuddy as Martha and George? I wasn't thinking about them in terms of their characteristics but as two people who care about each other and yet spend much of their interactions tearing each other apart. House executive producer David Shore says it's too early in the season to know if they're going to be introducing new characters. He says, "We don't have any plans on that. As we get closer to the end of the year we might, but I don't think we've mined everything we can with the six fellows we've had there." Translation: Thirteen is not going anywhere. We'll just conveniently forget that we said that the fellowships are three years long and we have to keep it realistic when it's time for her to leave. Sorry to disagree with him but I think more than enough has been mined with Foreman and Thirteen. I'm still betting on a new fellow coming on next season to replace Kutner, if only to liven the cyncism of the department composed of FTT and House. Could someone refresh my memory on when Stacey said this? It was in the lab scene with Cameron in Honeymoon. Stacey was staking her claim to House: Stacy: Our first date didn’t, either. I was never going to see him again. Week later I moved in. 5 years. What would you like to know? Cameron: What was he like before his leg? Stacy: Pretty much the same.

House executive producer David Shore says it's too early in the season to know if they're going to be introducing new characters. He says, "We don't have any plans on that. As we get closer to the end of the year we might, but I don't think we've mined everything we can with the six fellows we've had there." Translation: Thirteen is not going anywhere. We'll just conveniently forget that we said that the fellowships are three years long and we have to keep it realistic when it's time for her to leave. Well technically they did not become fellows until November of season 4, then add to that the time lost to House's mental illness and the time he probably needed off after the DBS and they could legitimately push back the end of the fellowship until next year.

Weren't the new fellows chosen in season four, and then the strike cut off the rest of the season? So we've really only had them for a year. As much as I am not enamored of them, realistically it isn't time for them to go. I have my Cuddy armour on so I think I'm ready. Yeah, me too.

I have a feeling this is going to be quickly construed as Lisa saying she only cares about "Huddy," but before that happens -- I think she's on the right path with this statement. Cuddy's priorities are one thing, but for the show House, House's relationship with Cuddy should always take precedence over Cuddy's relationship with the baby. House's relationship with Cuddy shouldn't be the main priority for the show -- that honor goes to House's relationship with himself -- but, yes, House/Cuddy > Cuddy's baby in terms of screen time. I have my Cuddy armour on so I think I'm ready. Thanks for your statement because I totally agree with it. I still am not convinced that Cuddy will get to adopt Rachel. Well, I think that Cuddy will get to keep Rachel, but we're never going to have extended story lines about Cuddy and Rachel again like we did in Painless and Big Baby. Not saying that Cuddy and her baby should get massive amounts of screentime because god knows I have about zero interest in seeing that, but the very fact that the baby now exists should actually stop Huddy in it's tracks. That it doesn't reeks of neglected baby storyline and doesn't really put Cuddy in the best light. Then again, I've always thought the Cuddy wants a baby storyline was just meant to gin up a bunch more screentime for LE, not actually serve as any sort of logical character development vis-a-vis Cuddy and House. And I think I should clarify that I didn't mean exploring the relationship between House and Cuddy means "Huddy." You're right, Rachel's existence should be a barrier to House and Cuddy having a romantic relationship, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a relationship to begin with and one that became infinitely more complicated with the events of the last two episodes (in which Rachel definitely played a role even if she was on-screen for only the last scene). Their relationship as it stands now needs to be explored (even if that exploration doesn't end in sex, which it shouldn't), and it needs to be given more screen time than Cuddy's relationship with her child because it is all about House.

Well technically they did not become fellows until November of season 4, then add to that the time lost to House's mental illness and the time he probably needed off after the DBS and they could legitimately push back the end of the fellowship until next year. Given how much Shore and Jacobs kept stressing the show needs to keep to "reality" in terms of the three year fellowship when it came to moving Chase and Cameron out, the strike shortening season 4 shouldn't matter in PPTH time. They started when they were hired in episode 2 of season 4, they've been around for two Christmases and this one will be their third. Fellowships are determined by the length of time spent in the department, not with House running it. The original team lost three months of having any attendings around to teach them while House was in the ketamine coma and recovering from the shooting; in contrast Taub and Thirteen will have Foreman teaching them while House is off. Foreman started in the pilot episode in November of season 1 and left in the last episode of season 3 presumably fully qualified since he was given his own department to head at Mercy. Taub and Thirteen started in episode 2 of season 4 so they should be gone at the end of season 6. I get the impression that Shore was surprised at the question because he wasn't expecting anyone to keep tabs about the new fellows time on the show. He should have known better with Chase and Cameron fans, and now he'll have to come up with a reason to keep Thirteen around although he may let Taub go. My guess is that her illness will develop to the state where she shouldn't practice unsupervised (in truth, she shouldn't be working without someone double-checking her results now) and that will be the excuse to keep her in the department, so he can monitor her work and her illness. Shore said "I don't think we've mined everything we can with the six fellows we've had there." And now they never will with Kutner. :lol: You're right, Rachel's existence should be a barrier to House and Cuddy having a romantic relationship, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a relationship to begin with and one that became infinitely more complicated with the events of the last two episodes (in which Rachel definitely played a role even if she was on-screen for only the last scene). Their relationship as it stands now needs to be explored (even if that exploration doesn't end in sex, which it shouldn't), and it needs to be given more screen time than Cuddy's relationship with her child because it is all about House. I think they should explore it in terms of where they are now and what's going to happen but being House's love interest the past two and a half seasons gave Cuddy a huge bump in screen time, pushing her far past even Wilson. What's going to happen now? House has a complicated relationship with Cuddy as he does with Wilson but he also has the potential to have a complicated relationship with a number of people, including Chase (father issues, conflicts of belief, former student) and Cameron (former student, conflicting values and levels of optimism) especially if they ever remember that Shore and HL both said that House had feelings for her and probably always would have. There is lots of room to explore those, as there still is lots of unmined territory with Wilson. Last season, Cuddy had a story line pretty much independent of House (Rachel) as did Foreman and Thirteen (Huntington's, "I want to live", drug trial, relationship). Wilson has never had that because Amber was more about how it was affecting House than about Wilson. Even Taub had more of his own story arc in his marriage and financial difficulties than Chase and Cameron had have over all five seasons. (I don't count the Chameron relationship because anything that requires Cameron to get a lobotomy to make it happen and ends in Dead Husband's Sperm is a plot contrivance to get Cameron out of the way of Huddy rather than a story arc for the character.) We know a lot about Thirteen, including flashbacks of her parents, we've met Foreman's parents and know about his brother and why he disdains people he doesn't think are worthy but we don't know why Chase left the seminary and became a doctor and we don't even know the name of Cameron's dead husband. When I hear Shore and KJ in interviews, there is such a disconnect to me between what they say and what I see on the show itself. "House realizing his feelings for Cuddy" implies that they will continue to pursue Huddy although the existence of Rachel should realistically mean that House would have to change in order to have a realtionship with Cuddy now that she has Rachel. (Unless Cuddy loses Rachel in season 7 just in time for her to ride off into the sunset with House in season 8 which would IMO be a huge cheat.) It is true that they haven't "mined everything we can with the six fellows we've had there" but by far the most mining has been done with Foreman and Thirteen and yet when we return to PPTH it's to see Foreman trying to run things, a storyline we've already seen at least 5 times going back to season 2. At this point I have little interest in watching Foreman do it yet again and doing it a little bit better each time while Cameron only got to run things once briefly in Big Baby and Chase hasn't had a chance at all yet. Shore acts like all the fellows are equal but as Squealer said, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

House has a complicated relationship with Cuddy as he does with Wilson but he also has the potential to have a complicated relationship with a number of people, including ...Cameron (former student, conflicting values and levels of optimism) especially if they ever remember that Shore and HL both said that House had feelings for her and probably always would have. I hope that one is dead forever...House might have once had an attraction/feelings for Cameron, but in the last two seasons, there has been very little evidence that he still does. Now that she is married, going back to resurrect that would be character destroying, in my opinion. As for the time line, remember that F, C and C served three full years, but Cameron and Chase had already been working for House when the series started. So, they were not kicked out after only three years, and I don't expect the new fellows will be moved on after 2.5 years.

alias_smith, I didn't mean to suggest the dreaded Crush rear its head again. I was suggesting a story line in which House works out a professional, mutually appreciative relationship with a woman he once had feelings for and now has an adult friendship with. My preference is for that to happen with Cuddy but as it doesn't look like that's going to happen, I'll take Cameron since House has very few adult-adult relationships in his life. Certainly I'd rather see him interacting professionally with Cameron than the sixth version of "Foreman tries to take control of the department". It's still early days yet but other than the opening 2 hour episode, every spoiler has been either a continuation of last season (Huddy) or a re-hash of it (Foreman Takes Charge; Thirteen and Foreman have problems in their relationship; "there will be really cool stuff for Chase and Cameron but not just yet").

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