He is at Mercy initially - he gets fired for some stunt he pulls - no idea what, but he doesn't last two months there. So he's interviewing again, not at PPTH initially. So Foreman get fired for being too House-like, eh? I hope someone on the show gets to point out that Foreman a. is not as brilliant as House. b. is extremely judgemental, unlike House. c. lacks the humanity that House often shows glimmers of. d. fails to recognize just how complex House is. This, IMHO, implies that he hasn't learned everything that he could from House. e. fails to see the subtleties in most situations. YMMV, of course.

URG. I hate the idea of Foreman getting fired for being like House because it will just give him more ammo for whining about how horrible House is and how much contact with him has damaged Foreman's own originally perfect self.... I want Foreman to fail on his non-House qualities and principles, not for something he can blame on House! I want him to fail for not acting like House, not doing something Houseian! :evil:

Ultimately, sweet fern, I think that's exactly why being Housian-like doesn't work for Foreman. It's BECAUSE he doesn't have the other half of House's self--his deep soulfulness and humanity. If he was really Housian, he'd bring the other half of the package. He'll just be birnging the packaging. That's something Foreman never got. Chase and Cameron both did. Chase "gets" House--how he works, his creative mind and outside the box thinking, as well as having been a recipient of House's humanity in Deception and his forgiveness (when even wilson wouldn't have forgiven him) post Vogler. Cameron "sees" beyond the House image. foreman adamantly refuses (or is unable to see). It's a flaw that also affects Foreman as a physician and diagnositician. It's this blindness that will be his undoing. To say it's Housian behavior is just shorthand.

I know what you are saying and I agree but Foreman is not going to suddenly get that and say "Oh, I didn't get fired because I was too much like House, I got fired because I wasn't enough like House; I need to see beyond the superficial and appreciate House's depth--something I don't have and which is what makes me unable to pull off the superficial House stuff."!!! Foreman is going to be all, "see, look, I did what you taught me to do and it got me fired--your way is bad bad bad which is exactly why I didn't want to be like you"--and blame his failure on House, not himself. If however he got fired for refusing to be like House he might have a better chance of seeing that House has something of value which he--Foreman--doesn't. Getting fired for being like House is just going to validate his stupid position that being like House is bad and is going to cause me much head-banging-on-the-desk misery every time Foreman is on. :x

Yeah, but then Foreman would have to have shown some insight, less ego and some smarts. None of which he has. He's never going to appreciate House. It would be completely out of character. when House tells foreman that he's like him, House means an outsider. A person with brilliance growing up in an envrionment that doesn't accept that; covering with a thick protective layer of protectiveness.

not serious business. new heights in TL;DR
Thanks all for filling me in on the Foreman spoilers! No idea why I have all these spoiler knowledge black holes. 4man is the least popular House character <Citation needed>, why is he getting more in our face screentime then say Wilson or Chase? Because DS adores OE (& created Foreman specifically for him) & has supposedly assured him that he's got a job as long as the series lasts. I acutally knew that about David Shore, because after the H/Cam date arc in S1 and OD,OR I make a special note in my brain whenever we agree on something. My fault for trying to be clever instead of clear. I was trying to point out that saying Foreman is the least popular character is a very hard statement to justify without some sort of qualifier: Foreman is the least popular character on this thread; Foreman is my least favorite character and I wish a helicopter would fall on him twice; DS/TPTB's Foreman fetish is nucking futs when JS is such a great actor too/better than OE and Chase is so much more interesting than Foreman that it requires scientific notation to express. For example. But saying F. is the least popular was a broad enough generalization that it set off my Foreman-fan radar. Now I've made it look like I was being all "This Iz SERIUS BIZNUSS Bring on Teh Moral Outrage", which was not my intent at all. Failed light-hearted funny only, I promise! And I really do want to see more JS and enjoy Chase story-lines, but that sentiment's expressed a lot ;) , so I don't chime in. So Foreman get fired for being too House-like, eh? I hope someone on the show gets to point out that Foreman a. is not as brilliant as House. b. is extremely judgmental, unlike House. c. lacks the humanity that House often shows glimmers of. d. fails to recognize just how complex House is. This, IMHO, implies that he hasn't learned everything that he could from House. e. fails to see the subtleties in most situations. YMMV, of course. My mileage is actually totally in tune with a-e. But did the spoiler actually say Foreman gets fired for being like House? I read it as House's repuatation precedes Foreman and then Foreman fails to live up to that. I think that the writers are aware of a-e and that those ideas are what they're trying to get across in the upcoming Foreman storyline. I don't think he's been treated like mini-House since S1, Chase is pulling off that concept (while still being Chase) much better right now. Which is why I don't think a Foreman storyline means less Chase. YMMV. "Foreman Returns" looks like it will continue and heighten a-e's ideas. Until the very end of S3 Foreman was giving himself credit/justification for things like his more traditional take on authority, better bed-side manner (so silly), and not being an addict. At the same time (a-e). Foreman's true character is Huge Ego, Not At All Sorry. Then in NItH, Foreman actually pulled a very House-like stunt w/a patient that would've cost him his medical license and was wrong; but even having his medical career saved by a fluke of timing seemed to not effect his ego. Then he pulled another big House stunt and a patient ended up dying of a staph-infection. House has enough self-awareness to cope with that outcome; Foreman doesn't (as sasmom points out). At the end of S3 he even goes above and beyond the kind of grief you would expect; because of his character he has to make a big damn production about how he learned his lesson, had an epiphany, and now will focus his energy on Not Being House because Foreman is Humble Now (HA!). House totally called him on his BS in HE, of course, and Foreman acted like a three-year old. Self awareness=not so great for the egotistical, actually. So I think this next Foreman arc will be interesting (please don't hurt me) since by fucking up at his new job, no doubt due to a-e, something has happened that really will fuck with his ego. Because Foreman's ego is much more sincerely based on his view of himself as a "good" doctor (which can be interpreted many different ways as seen on the show, but not seemed by Foreman because of, yep, His Massive Ego) than of his opinion of himself as a Nice (Better-Than-House) Humane Person. Like the kind of person who wouldn't stab someone with a tainted needle. But he wants to have it all, and for people to think that he values both of those things equally. Which is just the kind of hypocrisy House needs eliminated if he's going to find the truth and save lives, and lives to point out. Instead of the faux Self Evaluation Foreman pulled at the end of S3, DS/TPTB are giving Foreman another chance to deal with a-e, but with the kind of ego-destroying knowledge (fucked up at a new job but with only himself to blame) that has a chance to actually sink through his (in some ways) incredibly dense skull. That's my justification for holding out hope that Foreman will shut up and learn, instead of digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole he himself has dug. And I hope Chase will be the bigger person and help Foreman see that. I think Foreman might be impressed (read: threatened) by how much Chase and Cam changed. Unlike him. The writers have a chance to let Chase trump Foreman during his return to PPTH too, which if TRS is any indication, is an opportunity they may take advantage of. I'm hoping this storyline will showcase Foreman's flaws because they allow a bright led to be shed on the parts of House's awesomeness that, I think, DS finds most interesting (and that we all seem to enjoy watching. Or is House dropping knowledge on Foreman not enjoyable due to Foreman's density? I still enjoy it). I hope this story brings said awesomeness that we saw in House's "He sleeps better at night; he shouldn't" speech w/F in DNR (ymmv). I think the reason DS loves to harp on the F/H dynamic is that it's so easy in your personal life, as a citizen, as a coworker, to display the kind of cowardliness that Foreman does. Behind the scenes where the patients don't see, Foreman is a huge dick and infinitely less likable than Chase, and even House. BUT all the things mentioned above would probably be missed by a patient, so someone like Foreman gets the benefit of the doubt from the public (who doesn't get the audience's more privileged view of House's character) whereas life-saving House gets punched in the face and marched in front of Cuddy. Foreman's character helps illustrate one of my favorite themes of the show, a theme that, for me, has brought about a few of the show's best moments. And some of it's most anvilicious bummers. I just think it's neat that in fiction like teevee shows, it's easy to emphasize with House, but in real life and day jobs the Foreman's rule. I think DS was surprised and even dismayed that House was so readily accepted by the audience. I think he loves the idea of the audience having a character to resent; reveling in the idea of "medicine" (lessons) without the spoonful of sugar (guitar, piano, meaningful luscious HL stares). Then the audience goes through something a bit closer to what House's patients do, and he gets to feel badass. But obvs not everyone can pull it off, and DS crashes and burns sometimes. But I like that he takes the risk. And I still think the Foreman thing will go by pretty fast and will have more Chase and Cam before and after its run, even with then new fellows. I'm stupid like that. Thanks for letting me vent.

My fault for trying to be clever instead of clear. I was trying to point out that saying Foreman is the least popular character is a very hard statement to justify without some sort of qualifier: Foreman is the least popular character on this thread; Ummm . . thought this was a discussion board, not a UOP online course for which citations are required when making declarative statements. Foreman is the least popular character on the show as evidenced by the Fox House discussion board, the House LJ communities, this board and many, many others. He may not be the least favorite House character in another UNIVERSE but in this one he definitely is. Even OE said that he would never do another TV show after he finishes up with House. I don't think he would have said that if he were among the show's popular characters. I believe DS is very fond of OE but I'm not and dread that I will have to endure several S4 Foreman story arcs. When 4man was House's temp S1 boss I didn't like it. Hated Euphoria 1/2 and now I'm going to have to endure a 4-5 4man epi arc. Not good. Hopefully there'll be enough Wilson to keep me watching.

I believe that there might be no way to find out who's popular and who's not by all viewers, because I doubt that the majority of the viewers is active online.

When 4man ... 4man epi arc... No chatspeak as per the rules. Please use your mad spelling skillz. I know you've got 'em.

Foreman's true character is Huge Ego, Not At All Sorry. :lol: That made me laugh. I think you're right, Sans. Both Chase and Foreman are House-like (and not House-like) in very different ways and I think the writers are quite aware of what they've set up. Chase's character has made some pretty significant changes recently and I think Foreman's character is next. What I do hope is that each of the former fellows will find their own niche. Wilson is a good doctor in a very different way than House, and likewise I think Cameron, Foreman and Chase are likely equally good doctors but in different ways. It's them discovering what they are good at and being able to admit to what they are not that makes their journey interesting. I'm tired, so I hope that makes sense. :)

I think my only disconnect is that I assume the fandom is bigger than the stuff that shows up online, since I really didn't get into online fandom until recently. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic in assuming that there are viewers who do watch and just not post, but don't hate Foreman. Well...well, yeah. Not only are most viewers not gathering online to talk about the show, but most of those gathering tend to be female. (Mmm, bias errors. Talk statty to me, baby.) Internet fandom is an itty-bitty sliver of the viewer pie. I remember someone on That Weird Other Place talking about how their RL male friends actually find Foreman the most appealing supporting character (and none of them liked Chase). In the end, I'm not sure what Foreman has to do - try to suppress his more House-like qualities? Or acknowledge that they're there and he has to deal with them as they come up? Because right now it seems like he'd rather not look.

Here's a thought I just had. What if the patient said something to House about the experience making him pain-free (didn't he have a lot of bandages, etc?). and the guy did it because he was sick of being in pain. that would certainly push one of house's big red buttons.

Oooh! Interesting thought! I can't remember, does House have his cane with him in any of those pics where he's in the frumpy clothes?