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maya- 08-21-2009

I count TSC in the WTH?edness because House called Cuddy down to the patient's room for the express purpose of having him comment on her hotness because ?? Because she was feeling insecure about her attractiveness? (That doesn't sound like Cuddy.) Because he wanted to show off what a hot woman is into him? (That doesn't sound like House.) To retcon Cuddy's age or to show that she lies about it? The point House was making was that she treats his comments about her looks as him jerking her around. So he decided to use a guy who’s incapable of lying to compliment her and hoped she would see that he really does think she looks nice. It was his way of making up for his behavior in “LTEC” when he rejected her. I simply adored that scene and thought that it brought back the dynamic they shared in earlier seasons very nicely. It was great writing, in my opinion. Not to mention hilarious with the “pistons in a Ferrari” comment. There was also the scene in Unfaithful when the priest said to House So, you really like Cuddy... (or something like that). Season 1 House avoided even meeting the patient if he could get away with it and had little use for religion; what was he doing sitting chatting in a priest's room and telling him about his feelings for Cuddy? He was fascinated by the patient because of his views on faith. That’s in keeping with what they’ve shown us about him in the past. I was fine with that scene because it fit into the theme and the flow of the episode and what was happening between them nicely. In any case, we’ve had scenes before where the patients miraculously guess that House is lonely, miserable and bitter. This wasn’t that different. I thought their arc was written very well till Emancipation with the strongest episodes being Lucky 13, Joy and The Itch. It was mixed for me from Last Resort to Saviors but there was strong writing and great scenes between them even in there. Last Resort: Didn’t like the slow motion running and the concerned looks. Loved the drawer trick he played on her and their conversation at the end. Let Them Eat Cake: Didn’t like this one much. But loved the desk and the reference to their past. Joy To The World: Didn’t like this one much. Painless: It was fine. Big Baby: It was fine. The conversation between them when she brings the baby to him was beautifully written. The Greater Good: Didn’t like this one much. Unfaithful: It was fine. The Softer Side: It was fine. The last scene felt heavy handed but “The you and I both know you belong here scene” was great. The Social Contract: It was fine. Here Kitty: It was fine Locked In: The scene felt slapped on but the corset comment was funny. Simple Explanation: It was fine. Saviors: Didn’t like this one much. Scenes felt slapped on. House Divided: Good. Under My Skin: Brilliant Both Sides Now: Absolutely brilliant So yeah, there was some "what the hell" stuff, some slapped on scenes and some stretching but ultimately it all led to a fantastic ending. I love the place they’ve taken the relationship and look forward to seeing where it goes in the coming season.

Ariadne- 08-21-2009

My main WTH? moments from season 5: The point House was making was that she treats his comments about her looks as him jerking her around. So he decided to use a guy who’s incapable of lying to compliment her and hoped she would see that he really does think she looks nice. I never got the sense that Cuddy doesn't think she looks great. She wouldn't wear those clothes if she wasn't proud of her looks and wanted to show off her body. House used to make comments about her body when he wanted to deflect her from what he was doing or he wanted to get out of doing something. So even though she knew that it was true what he said about her body, his comments on her looks were indeed usually a way of jerking her around. Having a stranger say she looks nice isn't going to change that. I'm not saying that it wasn't good to have the old banter back because I did like it back in the day, just sayin' that this didn't make sense to me other than to push the Huddy ship in the audience's face. I'd rather have subtle. It also doesn't make sense in terms of House, who never struck me as the kind of man who wanted to show off his woman in order to have other men lust after her. Not to mention what Eric at GMMR said in his review, that there was a chance that the guy wouldn't find her hot and if House cared about Cuddy, he wouldn't want to take the chance of her feelings being hurt. He was fascinated by the patient because of his views on faith... In any case, we’ve had scenes before where the patients miraculously guess that House is lonely, miserable and bitter. This wasn’t that different. True. But how did the patient know about Cuddy? I don't recall that she went down to his room to talk to House so he couldn't have seen House interact with her. The only way he could have known about House having feelings for Cuddy is for House to have told him and that doesn't seem like House at all. He's barely willing to talk to Wilson about stuff like that, much less a complete stranger. I thought their arc was written very well till Emancipation with the strongest episodes being Lucky 13, Joy and The Itch. I agree. And House spending Joy cutting down Cuddy's dreams and then kissing her when she's hurt and vulnerable said a lot about their relationship. I didn't like that House spent the episode being nasty to Cuddy instead of supporting her in her dream. Then he kissed her when she was vulnerable and broken, which could be seen as taking advantage of her vunlerability. But that's House, although not the loving gesture you want from someone you want to have a relationship with. But I thought that The Itch started with what should have been the end of their arc, Cuddy being smart and self-aware, knowing that it couldn't work out and why it couldn't work out. So I'm baffled as to why they went from Cuddy seeing the situation realistically to then starting the all out selling of the ship. Was it like Stacy arriving with a husband, a statement that this isn't going to work out in the end so just hang in and enjoy the ride? I also thought that the arrival of Rachel was another sign that the ship was over, only to see it re-started again after Christmas. And House telling Cuddy in TSS that this is who he is also seemed to be a logical ending for it as an active ship. The way this is written baffles me. Every time all the signs point to why it's not going to work out and seem to be a natural ending to it, an episode or two later the writers start it up again. Let Them Eat Cake: Didn’t like this one much. But loved the desk and the reference to their past. Skipping over my rant about why did they retcon House and Cuddy's past instead of just writing them as discovering their relationship from who they were when the show started (in season 1 she addressed him as "Dr. House" even in private and bought him a birthday card because she didn't even know him well enough to know that he doesn't celebrate his birthday) and the stinkbomb and other childish actions... The desk sub-plot drives me crazy. First it drove me crazy because Cuddy is the head of the hospital and she's meeting major donors and important people in her office. She needs a power desk, not a beat up old desk from her college days. Second it drove me crazy because House took the decision away from her. (I have control issues. ;-) .) If it were me, I would have had all the trouble of putting the old desk back into storage and re-ordering the new one. If I'd wanted my old desk, I would have got my old desk. So I didn't see it as a romantic gesture but a controlling one. But my biggest problem is how it fits in in terms of the show's canon. In Top Secret, we're told that House and Cuddy had one night together. If they only had one night, how did he know about the desk, because that's something he would have known about only if he was a frequent visitor to her room? But if he was a frequenct visitor, why was it only one night? We know they liked each other, even that Cuddy had a crush on him back then, we know Cuddy likes sex and I presume House does too. Why didn't they have a relationship back then, or at least an FWB if they were too focused on their careers to have time for a real romantic relationship? If Cuddy and House had those kinds of feelings for each other, why didn't they hook up before Stacy when they met again at PPTH? Why didn't they hook up after Stacy left in season 2 and the emotional baggage was dealt with? House showed no interest in Cuddy at all then, he fantasized taking off Cameron's clothes and then dating Honey before he thought about Cuddy in those terms. If House had those kinds of feelings for Cuddy dating from college that we are now told he has, why did he wait from mid season 2 until season 5 to pick up on them? What attracted me to House the TV show (other than the characters) was that I didn't have to park my brain at the door to accept the plotting. That's no longer true in terms of the relationships. Big Baby: It was fine. The conversation between them when she brings the baby to him was beautifully written. House spent the episode, as he did Joy, tearing down Cuddy's self-esteem and telling her she's not good enough and can't have her dream. Wilson spent the episode trying to do damage control from House's actions and supporting Cuddy. I never saw Cuddy as being 'damaged' before but that that she still wants House and not Wilson is a good argument for it. Unfaithful: It was fine. Even Cameron can see what Cuddy needs to do in her relationship with House, which is to communicate with him. If she is such a good friend of House's, why couldn't she ask him to the baby naming? Cuddy was reduced to teenage girl status, unable to ask the bad boy she likes to come to the party that is so important to her. The Softer Side: It was fine. The last scene felt heavy handed but “The you and I both know you belong here scene” was great. I've heard arguments that Cuddy is the right person for House because she 'gets' him but this episode seemed to me to show just how much she doesn't get him. At the end, she wanted him to stay on the methadone and be a kinder, gentler person, a person who could fit into her life with Rachel. House had to be the one to tell her that what you see is what you get and he's not going to change and become the person that she wants him to be. Saviors: Didn’t like this one much. Scenes felt slapped on. Like The Itch, much of this episode was a Huddy anvil, including the Chameron subplot. I didn't like it that Cuddy was so unaware of her feelings for House and her worry about Cameron being a threat to her relationship with House that she had to be told by House, Chase and Cameron. That's not the smart Cuddy of the early seasons. Having Under My Skin be a hallucination made sense to me because just as methadone House was what Cuddy wanted, the Cuddy who dropped Rachel at a moment's notice to be there for House and who found him sexy and worth taking to bed even after he'd been puking all night was the Cuddy House wanted and neither of them are realistic views, nor will either be what the other wants them to be. The "I always want to kiss you" didn't make sense to me (see desk rant).

blacktop- 08-21-2009

Maya has stated succinctly and well the strengths of the presentation of the House/Cuddy arc in season five. If House had those kinds of feelings for Cuddy dating from college that we are now told he has, why did he wait from mid season 2 until season 5 to pick up on them? The entirety of season five is tightly structured upon the premise that House is reacting in a variety of ways to Amber's challenge on the White Bus in the season four finale. He spends every episode in one way or another struggling to reconnect with the relationships which make it worthwhile for him to get off the bus and take a chance at a meaningful and rewarding life. So getting Wilson back and reaching out to Cuddy are the two most important efforts House makes this season. (The third strong thread was his real effort to tackle his pain.) House clearly did feel strongly about Cuddy in previous years (and decades) but the urgency of his desire was ramped up this season by his brush with guilt and mortality stemming from Amber's tragedy. Throughout season five the stagger/stop/try again nature of House's efforts to bring Cuddy closer reflects his many doubts about his own worth as a partner as well as the profound communication difficulties that she contributes to their relationship. Cuddy perfectly matches House in the remarkable ungainliness with which she tries to communicate her deepest feelings. Given who they are as extreme people with abiding ties of devotion and loyalty to each other, limited self-knowledge, cramped emotional range, unsuccessful romantic pasts leading to serious self-doubts, and strong professional commitments, I found the writing of this arc both powerful and realistic. A few specifics: the stink bomb/tripwire travesty was a perfect manifestation of Cuddy's emotional breakdown under the pressures of her new motherhood, her doubts about her path forward as a professional, and her mixed feelings for House. House recognized Cuddy was having an emotional breakdown and reacted as a true friend, by refusing to retaliate and allowing her to punch her way out of her temporary emotional crisis. Likewise it was clear to me that House was not trying to destroy Cuddy's dream of having a baby. But he was offering her the kind of tough, realistic, and necessary truth that is his trademark. He was testing her commitment to having a baby, making her examine her motivations and her goals in a way that was brutal but honest. Cuddy admitted she recognized this in her anguished conversations with Wilson. House's mode of communication is always convoluted and indirect. Since he can't or won't rely on words to tell his heart's story, House frequently displays his attachment and regard for Cuddy through the fierce intensity of his observation of her (stalking her period as well as her blind dates were notable examples in previous seasons). In season five House communicated this high level of involvement through the thoughtful complexity required for him to acquire her medical school desk. Cuddy was not offended in the slightest as her soft facial expressions indicated. Having some soulessly slick power desk to reinforce some kick-ass cliche and impress donors is far less important to Cuddy than having a friend invoke private history and emotional ties in the tangible form of a shabby but well-loved piece of furniture. This makes complete sense to me as an expression of both of these unconventional characters. House's prank to bring Cuddy into the MRI room to hear the compliment from the truth-telling patient was impressive and daring precisely because only a supreme romantic conviction would lead him to risk the epic failure of the guy possibly ranking Thirteen higher than Cuddy. The move was bold, confident, peculiar, funny and utterly House. Most importantly, Cuddy got the compliment precisely as it was meant. House frequently shares his heart with strangers while concealing it from his colleagues and friends. This pattern was established in the pilot, when House gives an emotionally charged speech to the patient that he would never reveal to anyone else. So the fact that this inquiring intellect and questing soul sought out the POTW priest in season five at a moment of emotional stress was completely consistent with his character. The fact that the priest, a professional whose training, experience, and inclination gives him particular insights into human behavior, was able to see that House had a thing for his boss was also completely unsurprising and certainly realistic. If she is such a good friend of House's, why couldn't she ask him to the baby naming? Cuddy was reduced to teenage girl status, unable to ask the bad boy she likes to come to the party that is so important to her. The behaviors we see in Cuddy and House are rooted in their natures as insecure, doubt-ridden, rejection averse, disappointed romantically, needy, and emotionally fragile people. I am not sure why we would think that any of these fundamental human traits vanish once the teen years are over.

filmlover- 08-21-2009

With the priest in Unfaithful, I assumed that when we switched to that scene, they had been talking for quite a while. House was probably going on and on about the naming ceremony. It probably didn't take a lot for the priest to see that House did have some feelings for Cuddy. I loved the prank of House getting Cuddy to go to the MRI room with the truth-telling patient. House had to be so confident that the patient would find Cuddy as attractive as House found her. It did take guts to pull that off, because like Blacktop said the patient could have went the other way toward Thirteen. I loved the emphasis we got on their relationship. It will be interesting to see where the events of the S5 finale lead them.

LogicalLilly- 08-21-2009

"blacktop">Maya has stated succinctly and well the strengths of the presentation of the House/Cuddy arc in season five. I agree that Maya has expressed herself very well - as always - but what you both see as strengths are what I felt were the weaknesses in the whole House/Cuddy arc. I just don't feel it came across well at all, and I know I'm not the only non-shipping person who had trouble with it. I remember very clearly Lisa de Moraes, the Washington Post writer who has always loved House, commenting about this season, particularly the House/Cuddy relationship in her 11/21/08 live chat. She said, "I think they're letting the kids write the show this season..." as well as saying that this season is "not as good this year as it's been in the past." My point is that not everyone sees the presentation as a "strength," and I mentioned that specific writer because I know she loves the show, as I do. House clearly did feel strongly about Cuddy in previous years (and decades) but the urgency of his desire was ramped up this season by his brush with guilt and mortality stemming from Amber's tragedy. I've watched earlier seasons over and over again, and I don't "clearly" see House's strong feelings for Cuddy. I think he cares for her, but I never got any romantic vibes from him until a very few moments in Season 5. Throughout season five the stagger/stop/try again nature of House's efforts to bring Cuddy closer reflects his many doubts about his own worth as a partner as well as the profound communication difficulties that she contributes to their relationship. Cuddy perfectly matches House in the remarkable ungainliness with which she tries to communicate her deepest feelings. But why are they suddenly having these communication problems? Since when has Cuddy been damaged? I find it unbelievable that someone in the position she is in has communication problems, and she never had any problems communicating with House prior to this season. It all came across to me as extremely unrealistic in Season 5. A few specifics: the stink bomb/tripwire travesty was a perfect manifestation of Cuddy's emotional breakdown under the pressures of her new motherhood, her doubts about her path forward as a professional, and her mixed feelings for House. House recognized Cuddy was having an emotional breakdown and reacted as a true friend, by refusing to retaliate and allowing her to punch her way out of her temporary emotional crisis. But these rare moments of charity go completely by the wayside for me when I hear him mock her feelings for him in front of his subordinates on more than one occasion. He cut her some serious slack in one episode, which was lucky for Cuddy. That episode completely sealed my distaste for the whole arc. House's mode of communication is always convoluted and indirect. Since he can't or won't rely on words to tell his heart's story, House frequently displays his attachment and regard for Cuddy through the fierce intensity of his observation of her (stalking her period as well as her blind dates were notable examples in previous seasons). In season five House communicated this high level of involvement through the thoughtful complexity required for him to acquire her medical school desk. But prior to that moment, House had taken a sledgehammer and gleefully destroyed her private bathroom. WTH? I cannot buy the excuse that House can't communicate in a direct manner. This is a man who walked up to Stacy and said with painful honesty, "I don't want you to go." He's the one who tried sincerely to win Wilson back with a heartfelt apology. He is quite capable of being direct and sincere. He is also capable of giving a compliment to Cuddy and having it accepted as sincere. He told her in the Season 3 finale that her legs looked good in the light, to which she answered with a simple, "Thank you." He told her in an early Season 2 episode that she is a good boss. The difference to me is that the constant comments about her ass, breasts, etc. which are usually given in front of others are not what people would usually consider compliments, and that's what his comments are like, for the most part. So the fact that this inquiring intellect and questing soul sought out the POTW priest in season five at a moment of emotional stress was completely consistent with his character. The fact that the priest, a professional whose training, experience, and inclination gives him particular insights into human behavior, was able to see that House had a thing for his boss was also completely unsurprising and certainly realistic. It might be realistic to me if House had confided in him, but that would take some serious fanwanking to think that is what happened. We are given no reason to suspect that the priest knows anything about House and Cuddy, or has seen their interaction. Like Ariadne, I found it a serious anvil that was just as blatant as the Mos Def character making a comment about Cuddy being "into" House after seeing her for a few seconds, and that the SWAT guy would comment on Cuddy's "boyfriend," even though as administrator of the hospital, she had every reason to be concerned about everyone in that room. There were others as well, such as Cameron suddenly reading Cuddy's mind and knowing that she wanted House at the baby thing. These anvils were dropped over and over again throughout the season, and further turned me off the whole relationship. I don't want the writers spelling it out for me like that in such an obvious way. If I'm supposed to see it, I want to get there on my own. I do appreciate the thoughts and efforts that you and Maya put into each articulate pro-Huddy post, Blacktop. Even if I can't see it for myself, I know that there are others who see what you are saying perfectly.

maya- 08-22-2009

First of all, blacktop, an absolute pleasure reading your posts, as always. I have a response to one of your comments at the end of my post. I never got the sense that Cuddy doesn't think she looks great. She wouldn't wear those clothes if she wasn't proud of her looks and wanted to show off her body. House used to make comments about her body when he wanted to deflect her from what he was doing or he wanted to get out of doing something. So even though she knew that it was true what he said about her body, his comments on her looks were indeed usually a way of jerking her around. Well, yes, deep down he fears that she views him as a jerk especially after the way he behaved with her in "The Itch", which was precisely why he went out of his way to let her know in his unique Houseian way that he genuinely finds her attractive. Having a stranger say she looks nice isn't going to change that. Apparently it worked because Cuddy smiled to herself in a way we’ve never seen her do after House left. It also doesn't make sense in terms of House, who never struck me as the kind of man who wanted to show off his woman in order to have other men lust after her. Not to mention what Eric at GMMR said in his review, that there was a chance that the guy wouldn't find her hot and if House cared about Cuddy, he wouldn't want to take the chance of her feelings being hurt. There was nothing about that scene which suggested to me that House was showing off “his woman” to anyone else. I am genuinely surprised that someone would read it that way. What was lovely about it to me was precisely the fact that House had no doubt that the guy would find her attractive because he does. On some level it’s like when you’re in love with someone and feel confident that everyone will see in them what you do. And everything blacktop said about it. True. But how did the patient know about Cuddy? I don't recall that she went down to his room to talk to House so he couldn't have seen House interact with her. The only way he could have known about House having feelings for Cuddy is for House to have told him and that doesn't seem like House at all. He's barely willing to talk to Wilson about stuff like that, much less a complete stranger. Actually, House has had some of his most intimate conversations with total strangers. In the Pilot, SOCG and ODOR to name three off the top off my head. And yes we didn’t get a scene where House actually told him about his dilemma about whether or not to go to the ceremony but to me that’s a quibble because the episode did spend a lot of time showing us that House was drawn to the guy and was spending time with him. And House spending Joy cutting down Cuddy's dreams and then kissing her when she's hurt and vulnerable said a lot about their relationship. I didn't like that House spent the episode being nasty to Cuddy instead of supporting her in her dream. House isn’t perfect. Neither are his relationships with Wilson and Cuddy. That’s kind of part of the point of the show. And I would have gone to sleep in that episode if he’d “supported her in her dream”. Then he kissed her when she was vulnerable and broken, which could be seen as taking advantage of her vunlerability. They were both vulnerable. And he made it a point not to take things into the bedroom and literally fled from the scene. So no, he didn’t take advantage of her vulnerability. And she thanked him for it the next day. The desk sub-plot drives me crazy. First it drove me crazy because Cuddy is the head of the hospital and she's meeting major donors and important people in her office. She needs a power desk, not a beat up old desk from her college days. Or she’s reached a point in her career where she doesn’t need props to get things done. And everything blacktop said about it. Second it drove me crazy because House took the decision away from her. (I have control issues. ;-) .) If it were me, I would have had all the trouble of putting the old desk back into storage and re-ordering the new one. If I'd wanted my old desk, I would have got my old desk. So I didn't see it as a romantic gesture but a controlling one. There was nothing controlling about the gesture. It was a surprise and a gift and she had the freedom to do whatever she liked with it. But my biggest problem is how it fits in in terms of the show's canon. In Top Secret, we're told that House and Cuddy had one night together. If they only had one night, how did he know about the desk, because that's something he would have known about only if he was a frequent visitor to her room? But if he was a frequenct visitor, why was it only one night? We know they liked each other, even that Cuddy had a crush on him back then, we know Cuddy likes sex and I presume House does too. Why didn't they have a relationship back then, or at least an FWB if they were too focused on their careers to have time for a real romantic relationship? If Cuddy and House had those kinds of feelings for each other, why didn't they hook up before Stacy when they met again at PPTH? Well, it is possible to be close friends with someone and then end up in bed with them for a night. In any case, the writers give us snippets and leave our imaginations to do the rest of the work. That’s good writing, in my opinion. I don’t want everything wrapped up and tied into a bow and handed to me. I was kind of let down by the back story on House/Wilson in “Birthmarks”, for instance. Why didn't they hook up after Stacy left in season 2 and the emotional baggage was dealt with? House showed no interest in Cuddy at all then, he fantasized taking off Cameron's clothes and then dating Honey before he thought about Cuddy in those terms. If House had those kinds of feelings for Cuddy dating from college that we are now told he has, why did he wait from mid season 2 until season 5 to pick up on them? Because we don’t really know what happened with them in the past? Because they were negotiating their relatively new and adversarial professional relationship and consciously keeping away from complicating it even further? Because after Stacy left it hit him with full force that he wasn’t good relationship material? Because the show isn’t about House randomly hooking up with one woman after another? I've heard arguments that Cuddy is the right person for House because she 'gets' him but this episode seemed to me to show just how much she doesn't get him. At the end, she wanted him to stay on the methadone and be a kinder, gentler person, a person who could fit into her life with Rachel. House had to be the one to tell her that what you see is what you get and he's not going to change and become the person that she wants him to be. Well, it is rather hard to “get” a person who secretly initiates a treatment which is going to better his life, almost dies from it, resigns when you object to it because he tells you it keeps him pain free, accepts his job back and agrees to the regimen you’ve set up for him and then discontinues it for no good reason. I am not sure that even House quite “gets” himself entirely (hence the “I don’t know” when she asked him why he negates everything) and I think she does a tremendous job of keeping up with him. but what you both see as strengths are what I felt were the weaknesses in the whole House/Cuddy arc. I just don't feel it came across well at all, and I know I'm not the only non-shipping person who had trouble with it. Just to clarify, I said that I didn’t care for LTEC, JTTW, TGG and Saviors all episodes where they made House and Cuddy behave like kids and I understand people losing their patience over it. I do think there was plenty of strong writing and great scenes throughout the arc, though. Likewise it was clear to me that House was not trying to destroy Cuddy's dream of having a baby. But he was offering her the kind of tough, realistic, and necessary truth that is his trademark. He was testing her commitment to having a baby, making her examine her motivations and her goals in a way that was brutal but honest. Cuddy admitted she recognized this in her anguished conversations with Wilson. I completely agree. And in my opinion, other than the kiss, the scene with House, Cuddy and the baby in that episode was the most beautifully written one of the season. I loved that the baby threw up on him because it broke the moment of “bonding” at the perfect time, was very funny and very nicely mirrored him throwing baby puke on Cuddy’s shoulder in "Joy". Loved House’s petulant “If I threw up on you, you’d be pissed” (It seems like he’s forgotten that he did throw up on her shoes in "House’s Head" and she wasn’t pissed). Loved that he got his epiphany because of her and the baby. But what absolutely killed me was the oh so Houseian way in which he made her feel like she was the child’s biological mother when he referred to her hormones and hips. C: Move your feet. H: You decided to keep her. Thank you for telling me. You can go now. C: I talked to her. We connected. H: You talked at her. You had a chemical reaction. C: You trying to annoy me? H: I am trying to explain you. C: I know it doesn’t make any sense but it was real, it was there. Want to hold her? Come here. Come say hi. H: You think we’ll bond? H: Is that cute? C: A little. H: If I threw up on you, you’d be pissed. C: Your puke isn’t as cute. H: That’s coz of your hips. If you could just gestate a little longer , her stomach sphincter would be fully mature. But no, you have to walk upright which means that baby’s head is too big for mommy’s hips. And by the way, your hips may be an evolutionary improvement , evolved to find baby puke cute., coz otherwise we’d kill them all before they became functional. H: Bonding’s over. That’s the kind of writing that keeps me coming back to this show even after five years.

jim- 08-22-2009

maya, blacktop, and LogicalLilly, It's always a pleasure to read your excellent writing and consider the "wonder that is House MD" from other points of view. On the subject at hand, the Cuddy-House arc, I find myself somewhere between maya and blacktop. I enjoyed the bittersweet journey a little more than maya but a little less than blacktop (I think??). Maya referencing the baby bonding scene in such an empathetic fashion reminds me of some of the many tender and exciting moments during this arc. Thanks! I have been reading reviews of movies, especially great movies, for years. I know exactly what the reviewers mean when they say, "The characters were allowed to be truly human with all our human frailty. Nevertheless, the director/writer presented the characters with warmth, understanding and love." Unfortunately, during this arc, there were times when I felt the writers were not displaying a generous heart towards Cuddy's weaknesses but detected rather a tone of cold ridicule. And, from my perspective, that is the last tone I would be looking for. It is a tone that I would tend to try and ignore, if possible. That subjective feeling, more than anything else, persuades me that "House plus Cuddy" are probably done, given the writers currently on board. That's why I'm hoping for Cuddy to meet Mr. Amber one of these seasons. Maybe Cuddy being with a man other than House will allow the writers to feel more equally generous.

Ariadne- 08-22-2009

Well, yes, deep down he fears that she views him as a jerk especially after the way he behaved with her in "The Itch", which was precisely why he went out of his way to let her know in his unique Houseian way that he genuinely finds her attractive. They've known each other for over 20 years, been intimate and presumably gone through the devastation of House's infarction together. Either she knows him very, very well by now or she'll never know him. If House is afraid that she's going to view him as a jerk after his behaviour in The Itch, the way to remedy that is to not behave like a jerk. Being a jerk and then apologizing is typical for, well, House isn’t perfect. Neither are his relationships with Wilson and Cuddy. That’s kind of part of the point of the show. And I would have gone to sleep in that episode if he’d “supported her in her dream”. You would also go to sleep if they showed House's therapy sessions realistically because he would be in therapy for the next ten years. Allowances are always made to make things more exciting. But the way House treats Cuddy doesn't look like love to me. He treats Wilson somewhat better but even Wilson he takes advantage of if he can. And Wilson isn't dreaming of being in a relationship with House (so far as we know). Or she’s reached a point in her career where she doesn’t need props to get things done. I don't know how to reply to this. After 20 years in the hospital and corporate world, I know how important appearances are and Cuddy sees potential donors in her office. They're not going to give $2 million to upgrade the cardiac facility to a hospital run by a woman who has a college desk. I know the writers meant it as a romantic gesture, even though my brain cannot see it as such. Is this another time when I have to suspend my disbelief to accept that the show is telling me? Because we don’t really know what happened with them in the past? Because they were negotiating their relatively new and adversarial professional relationship and consciously keeping away from complicating it even further? Because after Stacy left it hit him with full force that he wasn’t good relationship material? Because the show isn’t about House randomly hooking up with one woman after another? In any case, the writers give us snippets and leave our imaginations to do the rest of the work. That’s good writing, in my opinion. I don’t want everything wrapped up and tied into a bow I don't need everything explained. Just things that don't make logical sense to me. House having those sorts of feelings for Cuddy for 20 years and never acting on them doesn't make sense. Hooking up with Cuddy wouldn't have been random. He's wanted her for 20 years, we are told. Why was he interested in Cameron in season 1 and pursuing Honey in season 3? If House didn't go after Cuddy because he thought he wasn't good relationship material, why didn't he do something about that? Cuddy may have been smart enough not to get into a relationship with House when she was his boss but I don't see that stopping House. Nothing stops him when he wants something. Well, it is rather hard to “get” a person who secretly initiates a treatment which is going to better his life, almost dies from it, resigns when you object to it because he tells you it keeps him pain free, accepts his job back and agrees to the regimen you’ve set up for him and then discontinues it for no good reason. I agree the reason for discontinuing it was flimsy as was Cameron's reason for resigning in BB but the show was eager to get back to status quo. Other than the justification for stopping, I understood everything else he did and why, and I haven't known him as long as Cuddy has. A few specifics: the stink bomb/tripwire travesty was a perfect manifestation of Cuddy's emotional breakdown under the pressures of her new motherhood The stink bomb was in LTEC before Cuddy got Rachel. So was Cuddy manufacturing an excuse to sit in his office in sexy clothes so that he would notice her. It's very high school behaviour. When the show was still teasing House with multiple ships Cuddy's advantage was that they were two mature adults, October/October as they said. (Cameron's was that she fit his medical personality more; Wilson's was everything except for the fact that he was the wrong sex.) This season has lost that advantage because of the three ships currently on the show (Foreman/Thirteen, Chase/Cameron four if you count Wilson/Amber), Huddy is the most immature in their behaviour. Likewise it was clear to me that House was not trying to destroy Cuddy's dream of having a baby. But he was offering her the kind of tough, realistic, and necessary truth that is his trademark. He was testing her commitment to having a baby, making her examine her motivations and her goals in a way that was brutal but honest. Cuddy admitted she recognized this in her anguished conversations with Wilson. I've bolded the word anguished because she really was that. Maybe he was showing her the realistic truth, or maybe he was jealous of Rachel now taking first place in her life. But if you really care for someone, do you want to hurt them like that? It's the same logic that his father used when he forced Greg to take ice baths. When you love someone, don't you want to support them and cushion any hurt they may get? The only times House has volunteered any personal information to anyone but Wilson was to Cuddy in Daddy's Boy to correct her assumption that it was his mother that he hated, to Cameron in the same episode to thank her for turning down the dinner invitation, and to Eve in OD, OR because it was a way of getting her to talk about her own trauma, and even then we're not sure if he didn't lie somewhat. Both Cuddy and Cameron he knew very well and with Eve it was a manipulation. In the pilot, Sports Medicine and Role Model, the patient/spouse guess what House was feeling from his behaviour. I still can't see House sitting down with the priest and confiding to him his problems with Cuddy. The behaviors we see in Cuddy and House are rooted in their natures as insecure, doubt-ridden, rejection averse, disappointed romantically, needy, and emotionally fragile people. True. That is the best explanation for their behaviours. Unfortunately, that's not the characters we were shown for the first three seasons on the show. House is the guy who was so sure of himself that he got Stacy to move in with him a week after their first date when she had decided she never wanted to see him again. True he was worried that Cameron only wanted him because she wanted damaged but Cuddy knew and had sex with him before the infarction. HL said that one of the reasons he finds House so appealing is that House doesn't care what other people think of him. Cuddy was looking for love but she showed no signs of being needy or emotionally fragile until it became about getting a baby. She took on House and won, and she took on Vogler and won. maya, blacktop, and LogicalLilly, It's always a pleasure to read your excellent writing and consider the "wonder that is House MD" from other points of view. I will take that as my cue to bow out of the discussion. ETA: One final thought -- I agree that the writing for Big Baby is very good (it's my favourite season 5 episode). But from that scene you quoted, I got no sense that House feels for Cuddy 'the tenderer emotions a man feels for a woman' as Jane Austen would say. (Cuddy, on the other hand, is eager to show off her new relationship with Rachel and to involve House in their lives.) Is Cuddy an "Itch" House needs to scratch? Or is she The One? I don't expect House to know at this point. But I do expect the writers to, and to write their relationship consistenly. ETA again: It's not because of walking upright that babies are born 11 months premature, it's because of the increased brain capacity which creates a larger head. Waiting any longer to be born would mean too great a mortality for mother and baby. Stephen Jay Gould write a very interesting essay on it. (okay, I'll stop now)

maya- 08-26-2009

Ariadne, my sense is that our reading of both House as a character and of his interactions with Cuddy are quite far apart. I think there’s much more to House beneath the “jerky” exterior and I quite clearly see his feelings for Cuddy. I also think they’ve done a great job of providing us with snippets of information about their back story over the seasons – enough to keep me wondering, filling the blanks and piecing them together in alternate ways. Anyway, let’s just agree to disagree about things. I find myself somewhere between maya and blacktop. I enjoyed the bittersweet journey a little more than maya but a little less than blacktop (I think??). I’d give the arc seven out of ten points. I liked the beginning (Lucky 13, Joy, The Itch, Emancipation, the last scene in Last Resort) and the ending (HD, UMS, BSN) of the journey. I enjoyed several moments in between as well (Painless, Big Baby, Unfaithful, most of TSS, SE). But there were parts that could have been much better written (LTEC, JTTW, TGG, Saviors). . I have been reading reviews of movies, especially great movies, for years. I know exactly what the reviewers mean when they say, "The characters were allowed to be truly human with all our human frailty. Nevertheless, the director/writer presented the characters with warmth, understanding and love." Unfortunately, during this arc, there were times when I felt the writers were not displaying a generous heart towards Cuddy's weaknesses but detected rather a tone of cold ridicule. And, from my perspective, that is the last tone I would be looking for. It is a tone that I would tend to try and ignore, if possible. I think the trouble was that they took almost no effort to explain the motivations for her behavior at key points in the arc. LTEC and JTTW were the most problematic episodes as far as this goes and it felt like they were written without much thought or care for her character. But I really liked how she was written in House Divided. The plot drove through both the Cuddy and the Wilson characters in UMS but the payoff was seeing House’s hallucination of her which was beautifully written, acted and filmed. And I simply loved what Doris Egan did with her in BSN. That subjective feeling, more than anything else, persuades me that "House plus Cuddy" are probably done, given the writers currently on board. That's why I'm hoping for Cuddy to meet Mr. Amber one of these seasons. Rachel is Cuddy’s Amber, in my opinion. I think she’s here to stay and I kind of doubt they will give Cuddy a boyfriend on top of that although like you, I would love to see it happen. As far as the future direction of the House/Cuddy relationship goes, I think that it has much less to do with who the writers on board are and much more to do with where David Shore wants to take the character. I’ve enjoyed his downward trajectory tremendously so far and with the breakdown they’ve just bought themselves a legitimate reason for another seasons worth of House struggling with himself and not really changing. At some point, though, I’d like to see his character taking real chances – be it with pain management or be it with a romantic relationship – even if he screws it up - as he inevitably must. But even if that doesn’t happen and they don’t show House and Cuddy romancing/sleeping with each other, I think their relationship is always going to be an important part of the show and we’ll continue getting interesting scenes between them from time to time.

jim- 08-27-2009

maya, If you don't already make a living writing, in my humble opinion, you'd be excellent at it. Your writing flows like a stream of intelligent thought. I’d give the arc seven out of ten points. I liked the beginning (Lucky 13, Joy, The Itch, Emancipation, the last scene in Last Resort) and the ending (HD, UMS, BSN) of the journey. I enjoyed several moments in between as well (Painless, Big Baby, Unfaithful, most of TSS, SE). But there were parts that could have been much better written (LTEC, JTTW, TGG, Saviors). A great list for lovers of House and Cuddy (like me). I would add that, even though "Saviors" was written with a certain "I Love Lucy" shenanigans, I was able to enjoy it. :-) I would love to see more scenes like the ones at the end of "Last Resort" and in "Painless" when Cuddy returned to PPTH from her home and confronted House while he was sitting on her student desk. That latter confrontation had the rarely equalled feel of the electrifying scenes created by Rosalind Russell/Cary Grant, Myrna Loy/William Powell, or Claudette Colbert/Clark Gable. I think the trouble was that they took almost no effort to explain the motivations for her behavior at key points in the arc.Yes. And the camera, at times, observed Cuddy from the distance of a third or fourth party, too aloof. Rachel is Cuddy’s Amber, in my opinion. I think she’s here to stay and I kind of doubt they will give Cuddy a boyfriend on top of that although like you, I would love to see it happen.I always assumed Cuddy's sexual partners were never alluded to or shown (except maybe the P.I., Lucas) because they were keeping that experience as an "ace in the whole" for House and Cuddy, something extraordinary. (As the kisses have been) Now that it seems they have changed their minds (for the time being), they might suspend the "no obvious sex or intimacy for Cuddy" rule. they’ve just bought themselves a legitimate reason for another seasons worth of House struggling with himself and not really changing. At some point, though, I’d like to see his character taking real chancesMe too, and I hope they don't wait until the last six episodes of the series. The writers have engineered an amazingly convincing foundation for renewed, energetic struggle, far better than the "survivor arc". But I would be very happy with a tighter, shorter 7 years of storytelling rather than 'prolonging' the trajectory of the story into 9 or 10 years because then the great Hugh Laurie can go back home and RSL can return to the stage.

blacktop- 08-27-2009

Beautifully put, maya. I particularly agree with your sentiments here: At some point, though, I’d like to see his character taking real chances – be it with pain management or be it with a romantic relationship – even if he screws it up - as he inevitably must. This is the true challenge for the writers and David Shore now. We have seen that House can deflect and defend his emotional core with ramparts of steel. Now we need to see him jump off the ledge and try to make a genuine emotional connection in a romantic relationship once again. This would be the ultimate gamble of his life (as it is for any of us). Can this risk-averse, introverted, sensitive, intensely romantic, and profoundly lonely man open himself to the possibility of heartbreak by commiting himself to a romantic relationship? Jim, I loved your catalog of old-time movie couples (I would throw in Astaire and Rogers) and I think they are appropriate and accurate references in a discussion of House and Cuddy. Those classic pairings emphasized the uncertain and rocky path of seduction rather than the consumation itself. The focus was on the intellectual match, the emotional negotiation, and the physical intensity between people on the far side of thirty. The dialogue was often brittle, caustic, and so coded that it can appear frustratingly trivial to the casual observer because the couple are cautious about re-engaging in love, bruised as they are by disappointing prior romantic encounters, and hesitant to give in and give up their hard-won autonomy. I too am wondering about Cuddy's continued celibacy. I think that Shore will continue to keep her in a romantic lock-box for the duration of the life of the show. It is striking that every other major character has been shown to have been in a sexual relationship (or several) since the show began, except for poor departed Kutner. I think this celibacy is absolutely on purpose and central to the story Shore wants to tell about Cuddy, her isolation, her thwarted sexuality, her fierce devotion to the hospital and House, and her pursuit of a family through any means necessary. Her continued celibacy sets Cuddy apart and and marks her as unique while ratcheting up the stakes in the emotional negotiation between her and House. I think we are meant to see it as an absolute and unbreakable truth when House told Wilson, "She only has thighs for me."

jim- 08-28-2009

blacktop, your posts are always a special treat to read. Those classic pairings emphasized the uncertain and rocky path of seduction rather than the consumation itself. The focus was on the intellectual match, the emotional negotiation, and the physical intensity between people on the far side of thirty.Yes, it's the intellectual match and emotional negotiation that has neverending prospects. In the story of Russell/Grant in "His Girl Friday", they had already divorced and Russell fell under Grant's rough spell once again. In the story of Loy/Powell in the "Thin Man" films, they were married sleuths. With Colbert/Gable in "It Happened One Night", they met as strangers. So, the assumption that once couples get together on TV all tension is gone is a myth, imo. I imagine the writers must work triply hard to pull off a Loy/Powell, but the results are timeless. Of the three couples, I think Cuddy/House can be compared to Russell/Grant in that C/H are also extremely wary of one another at this point, like a divorced couple who still long to be together but are well aware of the impediments. I think this celibacy is absolutely on purpose and central to the story Shore wants to tell about Cuddy, her isolation, her thwarted sexualityIf Cuddy has been celibate unwillingly, that would make her story a much more unsettled and, at times, desperate one. But I love the character of Cuddy because of her pure heart and her courage that allows her to keep her heart that way.

filmlover- 09-29-2009

Do you think we will ever see House and Cuddy associating on a more social level? It seems they both consider each other friends, yet they don't ever hang out. Meet for drinks or anything. Would you all like to see them hang out more outside of the hospital?

sdemar- 09-29-2009

Yes, I would love to see them hang out but wonder if they don't intentionally. Not because they don't like each other but because they do and fear where it will lead. I think it is obvious there are sparks on both sides but neither is willing to take it to the next level-employer/employee relationship comes to my mind.

filmlover- 10-02-2009

Yes, I would love to see them hang out but wonder if they don't intentionally. Not because they don't like each other but because they do and fear where it will lead I agree with this. I think they do fear what could happen if they start actually socializing outside of the hospital. It could end up leading to something they aren't really ready for yet.