One Night I Gave You Everything You Wanted: House/Cuddy

I have never seen House as an emotional cripple, or even that overly damaged. I believe he experiences a full compliment of emotions, and probably feels things deeper and more acutely than so-called well adjusted people. House's problem is with the expression of his feelings. From what we know about his family background, and what I know of people with similar backgrounds (those with detached and/or abusive parents) the feelings of the child were ridiculed, stifled, judged, or just not important, so over time, such a person learns to try to mute their feelings or keep their feelings to themselves because "nobody wants to hear it anyway". This, of course, leads to becoming confused about how to experience and react approporiately to emotions, but I don't think does anything to the emotions the person actually feels. I don't think House is at all confused about how he feels about Cuddy. He just doesn't know how to sit down and express his feelings, or how any kind of normal relationship is supposed to function. But, he knows he wants to give it a try, which is why he keeps grasping at straws where she's concerned. That's why he has to negate everything, and part of why he keeps trying on different hats as to how to cope with his pain and other things of that nature. He keeps hoping that eventually he'll hit on something that she can love and accept. Only thing is, she never will. I really, REALLY don't like the House/Cuddy ship because on more occasions than I'd like, she treats him like crap. She conspires with Wilson against him. She physically harms him. She lies to him. She is unwilling or unable to see the things he is capable of emotionally, things he is trying to express, and efforts he makes. She takes advantage of her position over him. Of course he would "love" her, she's probably the female version of his father. He knows just what role to assume and doesn't even know he's being abused by her. This kind of treatment is normal to him. I disagree with your take on both House and Cuddy as well as their relationship. Honestly, we’re so far apart in our readings of the characters that I find myself at a bit of a loss regarding how to begin to respond to your post. The sum and substance of what I want to say, though, is that House isn’t the angel you’re making him out to be and neither is Cuddy the devil you’re writing her off as. They are both pretty screwed up people engaged in a complex, dysfunctional relationship just like House/Wilson (but more complicated because they have to deal with a boss/employee dynamic as well as a sexual dynamic). Yet, the relationship works because as Hugh Laurie very succinctly put it, they “do” something for each other. I think that’s equally true of his relationship with Wilson. Let's talk about conspiring with Wilson. My memory sucks and I could be proven wrong but it seems to me that anytime Cuddy has conspired against House, it was done at the direction of House's best friend, Wilson, who we know loves House. While we may disagree with what they have done, they were doing it because they believed it was in House's best interest. Part of the problem with seeing it from their perspective is, we, the viewer, are able to see inside of House's mental state while they are not. They are at a disadvantage and House gives nothing away. Absolutely right. Wilson convinced Cuddy to challenge House about being able to do without his pain killers in "Detox". He browbeat her into keeping the fact that House had successfully cured the PoTW from him in "Meaning". They both mean well in their own misguided, screwed up ways. And they have both put their jobs on the line for him during the Vogler arc and the Tritter arc. .

I never said House was an angel, good lord far from it. I was merely referring to the way I perceive he feels and handles emotions and to no other action he takes or any other facet of his personality. Of course he's lied, conspired, violated boundaries, etc. In spades. I mean, he manipulated all his friends into thinking he had brain cancer (granted, they snooped, but he didn't set them straight, rather he allowed them to believe he was dying). That's NOT an angel. Honestly, the way I've always felt about House is he's great to watch on TV, but if I knew him IRL, I'd hate him. He'd be a nightmare coworker and a terrible friend, regardless of his intentions. I've also had someone in my life who has a drug problem, and exhausting and emotionally draining don't even begin to describe it. And so, I agree that anyone who can have any kind of relationship with him must be damaged as well. Healthy people aren't usually in the habit of sustaining dyfunctional relationships with dysfunctional people. I just commented on House's background and made some speculations because we've been given more of his backstory than Cuddy's or Wilson's. Also yes, both Cuddy AND Wilson have been involved in conspiring against House but 1) This is the House/Cuddy relationship thread and 2) Just because Wilson comes up to Cuddy and goes "Hey, I have a great idea, let's take away House's painkillers for a week" doesn't mean she has to go along with it. "You're insane" would be a completely valid response. I'm not saying either (or any) character is entirely good or entirely evil. Life doesn't work that way and it would make for boring TV if characters were portrayed as such. That's part of what's so engaging about House (the character and the show): there are no clear lines as to which end of the spectrum anyone falls on. All characters have done amazing compassionate things as well as amazingly dispassionate things. But seriously guys? This isn't real life, and even if it were, I have my take, you have yours. I'm cool with that. Please be cool back. :cool:

But seriously guys? This isn't real life, and even if it were, I have my take, you have yours. I'm cool with that. Please be cool back. :cool: We are. We're just making conversation. :)

But seriously guys? This isn't real life, and even if it were, I have my take, you have yours. I'm cool with that. Please be cool back. :cool: We are. We're just making conversation. :) I know. Friendly debate is cool too. I was an English major in school, and I absolutely LOVE to pick characters apart and analyze relationships. But, from that experience, I also know that when people feel passionately about a character, things can turn unfriendly and it would suck if that happened.

I never said House was an angel, good lord far from it. I was merely referring to the way I perceive he feels and handles emotions and to no other action he takes or any other facet of his personality. Thanks for the clarification. It’s a beautiful thing. :) Also yes, both Cuddy AND Wilson have been involved in conspiring against House but 1) This is the House/Cuddy relationship thread and 2) Just because Wilson comes up to Cuddy and goes "Hey, I have a great idea, let's take away House's painkillers for a week" doesn't mean she has to go along with it. "You're insane" would be a completely valid response. Cuddy conspiring with Wilson to "fix" House does affect her relationship with him so I don’t see why it doesn’t belong on this thread. You were the one who brought it up. Sdemar and I were responding to that. Cuddy goes along with Wilson’s schemes because she trusts that he has House’s best interests at heart. Even as recently as "TSS" we saw that she threatened to fire House after Wilson told her he was on methadone and that it might kill him. And she supported his treatment and offered him his job back when Wilson told her that the methadone was good for House. I do wish she would think for herself but my guess is that they write her like that because they don’t want a woman character openly loving and/or understanding House. Unless, of course, they have an exit planned for her like they did with Stacy and Cate. I think they are taking it very slow with Cuddy because they want to have the option to end the show with House being with her in some way, shape or form. As DS said “the chemistry is there no matter what we write for these two” and “if House is capable of having a relationship with anyone, it's Cuddy.” absolutely LOVE to pick characters apart and analyze relationships Good. You’re in the right company.

I do wish she would think for herself but my guess is that they write her like that because they don’t want a woman character openly loving and/or understanding House. That's how I see it too. I don't think Cuddy understands House, but I don't think the writers are intending her to understand House. (I guess that's where I disagree with sdemar. I haven't seen anything this season that indicates Cuddy understands House). If she did, then it would just be Stacey all over again. And as much as I loved House/Stacey, I don't want Hosue and Cuddy's relationship to go quite as perfectly as their's apparently did (disregarding the freak-accident that tore them apart). Cuddy is similar to Wilson in that sense. They both want what's best for House, but both usually end up making things worse instead. While Wilson wants to 'improve' House through lectures and manipulations, Cuddy is more outright and blunt. Telling him they're supposed to kiss, threatening him with his job unless he goes off his drugs, etc. She expects something and when House doesn't deliver it, is left disappointed. (the same applies to House and Wilson). Well, that's exactly the problem with this arc, IMO - we know very little about Cuddy, her relationship patterns, and what exactly she wants. We know she had some kind of romantic or sexual encounter with House at some point, that she's very driven professionally, that she wants a 'normal' family life, and we've seen her struggle to connect with people romantically. None of that, to me, screams of "damage" in the way of most characters on this show - just average levels of human difficulty. Lonely I can certainly see in her character, but damaged or troubled seem to me a stretch - if inability to make a longterm partnership work counts as damaged, I and most people I know qualify. *g* I love you for writing this m_supercomputer. It boggles my mind whenever the writers call Cuddy "damaged" because she isn't living a life that's much different than many middle-aged career-driven women. I just can't see where this supposed "damage" is coming from. Sure, she's screwed up parts of her life...maybe moreso than other people. But that doesn't equate to "damage" imo. But maybe different people have different interpretations of what a "damaged" person is. To me, "damaged" is having an infarction that screws up every aspect of your life, it's being depressed and thinking you're the reason your brother went missing and your marriages failed, it's knowing you're going to die of a horrible disease in just a few years, it's even having your husband die from a fatal disease that ou couldn't stop. But "damaged", to me, is not being a career-driven women who sucks at relationships.

But "damaged", to me, is not being a career-driven women who sucks at relationships. Cuddy said she has screwed up every relationship she has been in. There is something to that. Why is that happening? We know about Wilson's 3 wives and his infidelity problems. We know about Cameron's PDH. We know about House's leg. We don't know anything about Cuddy's background other her education. I can believe she is damaged but I don't know why. There is a missing puzzle piece here.

There might very well be a missing puzzle piece. But there also might not be. I can also buy that Cuddy is damaged but we don't know why. It's true that something in her past might have made her terrible at holding onto relationships. But until that is specifically stated or confirmed, I'm going to look at her as a regular career-driven women who sucks at relationships. It isn't uncommon for a woman to be single at Cuddy's age. In fact, it seems to be becoming more and more the norm. Women are waiting later in their lives to get married and have kids, then before they know it they've hit middle-age and have neither. And naturally, they'd start wondering if they're the problem. They'd watch people around you getting married, having kids, living the perfect lives in the perfect house in the perfect neighbourhood... and they'd start to think "Why don't I have that? Maybe there's something wrong with me". That's how I interpret Cuddy. She wants the perfect life but it just hasn't happened yet, so she's starting to blame herself and give up. Then House comes along and gives her a big wet kiss, and a little sparkle of hope comes back for Cuddy. I don't think she's particularly terrible at relationships- Well she is, but at least not to the point where men go out of their way to avoid her. She might be clumsy when it comes to dating, but her main problem seems to be that she doesn't have time to go dating and the only men she is around on a daily basis only see her as a boss....or are House. lol -

This damaged vs. not damaged argument always seems to me to be really an argument about whether or not Cuddy is "special" enough to be of any interest to House, since House finds the damaged most interesting. Therefore, if we can prove that Cuddy isn't damaged, then therefore she isn't special, therefore she's of no interest to House, therefore the ship is pointless. Or vice versa, if we can prove that Cuddy is the most damaged princess of them all, then the ship should be canon forever and ever, amen. But, I guess in the way that "Everybody lies," one can assert that "Everybody's damaged." Everyone has been screwed up by the experiences in their life; the trick is whether or not one can sufficiently manage. As we've moved through the seasons, I think we've found as we've dug deeper into her character that Cuddy doesn't manage as well as she would initially seem to on the surface. She has problems setting aside her emotions and she's very stubborn and she is very self-centered. And those three facets to her personality have definitely come into play this season when dealing with House and with what she feels for House. I don't think anyone can disagree that she hasn't handled them very well. I love Cuddy to death, but one can tell how she's "screwed up every relationship" she's ever been in just by watching her interact with House (not that House helps any). "Damage" is such a buzzword when it comes to this show, but I'm not sure we've really defined what damage should look like. Is it what we can find on the surface, whether that surface is physical or emotional? Or is it something that in some way informs every decision and action one makes without being immediately obvious? I think Cuddy would fall into the latter category, but at the same time I feel weird about this whole argument because, again, I think when some of us say "damaged," we mean some form of "special." ETA: I think we also need to keep in mind that what's character-building for some is traumatic for others, and vice versa. For example, when House got sick, he recoiled into himself, he did little to nothing in terms of rehab, and he pushed Stacy away. When Mark Warner got sick, he did all the rehab possible and when he recognized he was pushing Stacy away, he did everything he could to get her back. So, what someone on the outside of Cuddy's life situation may see as her just being the same as any other modern career woman, Cuddy may see as being incredibly traumatic and emotionally growth-stunting. And I don't think telling her that she's not all that different from anyone else (and she's really not) would do much to snap her out of it.

but at the same time I feel weird about this whole argument because, again, I think when some of us say "damaged," we mean some form of "special." Well, I think that can be the case in some discussions, but how I meant it, at least, was in response to comments by the writers/DS that Cuddy is 'damaged' and that's part of what draws her to House (paraphrasing, possibly slightly inaccurately). My point there was that, as this show typically defines 'damage,' I don't think they've demonstrated this convincingly or consistently, particularly before this season's arc. And, replying to something from Namaste from embarrassingly long ago (apologies - I have a short attention span sometimes. *g*) Isn't that, then, in an of itself an example of damage? The idea that someone knows who and what House is, and yet willingly opens herself up the idea of exploring something more is pretty much a definition of someone with issues, aka "damage." That's certainly true, but that's something that's come about in this season's arc, itself. To have made this arc convincing to me, there would've had to have been more about this aspect of Cuddy than one awkward blind date in season 3. As it has been executed, it's struck me as artificial/contrived attempts to push the 'shipping' forward, rather than organic character and plot development. But, of course, YMMV.

Then House comes along and gives her a big wet kiss, and a little sparkle of hope comes back for Cuddy. I don't think she's particularly terrible at relationships- Well she is, but at least not to the point where men go out of their way to avoid her. She might be clumsy when it comes to dating, but her main problem seems to be that she doesn't have time to go dating and the only men she is around on a daily basis only see her as a boss....or are House. lol - I can see this as a possible interpretation, this is one of the many times where it makes me a little nuts that we don't know that much about Cuddy's past in any respect, as in her relationships, her family life when she was young, etc. All we know is she busted her butt to get through med school and get where she is now, which says "driven career woman with no time to date". I also think the "career woman with no time" thing might be a front because we've never really seen her actively pursue a romantic relationship, and she has said she sucks at them, so using the old "my job takes up most of my free time" excuse absolves her of having to correct her relationship issues. It's a tough one to call for sure, either way. The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe she just wants House because House wants her and because he's convenient. It's male attention that she doesn't really have to reciprocate, ne, CAN'T reciprocate because if she gets too close to him, his defenses will go up and he'll ruin what screwed-up relationship they do have.

I also think the "career woman with no time" thing might be a front because we've never really seen her actively pursue a romantic relationship, and she has said she sucks at them, so using the old "my job takes up most of my free time" excuse absolves her of having to correct her relationship issues. It's a tough one to call for sure, either way. I think this is a pretty valid interpretation. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone used their work as an excuse to not be sociable. The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe she just wants House because House wants her and because he's convenient. It's male attention that she doesn't really have to reciprocate, ne, CAN'T reciprocate because if she gets too close to him, his defenses will go up and he'll ruin what screwed-up relationship they do have. And conversely, Cuddy is the only woman in House's life since Stacy who can consistently go toe to toe with him arguments (usually without taking it personally), which I think House is drawn to, and I think he likes the female attention that Cuddy gives him without any immediate requirement to screw it up, basically. So it that sense they've been carrying on this platonic office romance for years. I think the overarching theme for Season 5 has been loneliness and misery and how long people can stand such states of being. How long can Wilson stay in a friendship in which he gives way more than he receives? How long can Taub shun a life in which he once reveled? How long can Foreman and Thirteen keep pushing people away? And in that same sense, how long can House and Cuddy keep pushing each other away? And if they do stop pushing, what are their reasons for pulling closer together -- are they necessarily healthy reasons? House and Cuddy have no business staying together for any extended period of time (in canon), but it could be interesting to explore what could happen if they both let their defenses down for a little while. That's only happened once between them this season at the end of Joy.

"Damage" is such a buzzword when it comes to this show, but I'm not sure we've really defined what damage should look like. Is it what we can find on the surface, whether that surface is physical or emotional? Or is it something that in some way informs every decision and action one makes without being immediately obvious? I think Cuddy would fall into the latter category, but at the same time I feel weird about this whole argument because, again, I think when some of us say "damaged," we mean some form of "special." ETA: I think we also need to keep in mind that what's character-building for some is traumatic for others, and vice versa. For example, when House got sick, he recoiled into himself, he did little to nothing in terms of rehab, and he pushed Stacy away. When Mark Warner got sick, he did all the rehab possible and when he recognized he was pushing Stacy away, he did everything he could to get her back. So, what someone on the outside of Cuddy's life situation may see as her just being the same as any other modern career woman, Cuddy may see as being incredibly traumatic and emotionally growth-stunting. And I don't think telling her that she's not all that different from anyone else (and she's really not) would do much to snap her out of it. You’ve raised interesting and valid questions about what it means to be “damaged” and I don’t think it’s been clearly defined on the show. It became a buzz word ever since House used the word to describe Cam as well as himself in Season One. ("Gorgeous women do not go to medical school. Unless they're as damaged as they are beautiful” and then later “What I am is what you need. I'm damaged.") and I remember thinking then that the word was being flung around rather loosely. My point there was that, as this show typically defines 'damage,' I don't think they've demonstrated this convincingly or consistently, particularly before this season's arc I think that whatever we’ve been shown about her has been quite consistent but I agree that they should and could have revealed more about her character in the earlier seasons. Perhaps Cam marrying a dying guy and Cuddy not being able to sustain relationships are effects of some underlying damage but we haven’t been told much about what that is in either case even though we’re into the fifth season of this show. On the other hand, we know too much about what caused 13’s damage but not enough about her as a person and so the character doesn’t feel very real. I’ve always thought that the male characters on the show have been much better written regarding their back stories and how they have affected their relationships and behavior. As it has been executed, it's struck me as artificial/contrived attempts to push the 'shipping' forward, rather than organic character and plot development. I haven’t got the sense that they have been attempting to push the “ship” forward. We know that things won’t really go anywhere between them because the writers can’t have House be in a relationship and we’ve been reminded every step of the way how confused and out of sync the two are about what they want from each other as a romantic couple. As far as character and plot development go, I think we’ve gotten plenty of it. We’ve seen that despite their flaws these two people are capable of growth and change. House has accepted that he “negates” things and that he doesn’t know why he does it. He finally kissed Cuddy and came to the realization that she is the right person for him. He has accepted that the baby is going to be a part of her life and has learned to step back and stop being possessive of her attention and time. Despite an initial setback, Cuddy has adopted a baby and successfully battled her insecurities about being a good mother. She has more or less accepted that House is not willing or able to change. And finally, they’ve both come to the realization that no matter what goes on in their romantic life, they belong together in their own unique way (Cuddy’s “You and I both know you belong here” followed by his “Thank you”). I think that’s quite a lot given that the writers can’t change House too much.

He finally kissed Cuddy and came to the realization that she is the right person for him. That seems like a big leap to me. I think he came to the realization that he liked kissing her and would like to sleep with her, but I don't see how he decided she was the "right person" for him. He's had plenty of time since the kiss, and certainly plenty of time since they first slept together to make his move. She has let him know that she's available to him. I don't think I would go so far to say that House has realized that Cuddy is the "right" person for him -- that person will probably always be Stacy. But I think House has now come to the conclusion that Cuddy could be a good person for him, and now he has to deal with that information. There could be other "good" people for him out there -- Cameron certainly could have filled that role at some point, Wilson most definitely could, as could have Cate from the South Pole, even. But it would seem Cuddy is in that position for right now.

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