Manipulative Bitch: Dr. James Wilson

So my question is: What in the episodes that follow DCE shows that House is horribly upset by that particular statement, rather than Wilson's departure overall? I think we saw the hurt and sadness in House's eyes when Wilson said those words to him. But I think House realized that Wilson was talking out of anger and grief and decided to work on getting him to stay and face the fact that he did in fact, enjoy their friendship, dysfunction and all, and that he was running away because he was afraid of losing House. I had transcribed their conversation in Birthmarks to better understand it. Here it is: W: How can I still feel surprised? You would take even this a moment of real, human grief and turn it into a farce. H: Oh cut the crap. You enjoy what I do. I never had to force you. You enjoy coming along for the ride. W: Yeah, that's why I am cheering you on now. H: This is about you needing to be prepared for the worst. So you become an oncologist. No surprises there, worst happens all the time.. But Amber, she was young and healthy, her death came out of nowhere. W: Don't bring Amber into this H: And you weren't ready. And that makes you angry, the world sucks and you didn't have time to brace yourself. W: What happened out there is your show.... H: You're scared to death of losing anyone that matters so you dump the person who matters the most to you. W: I am not scared to death, I am moving forward... H: Because no one can take away from you what you no longer have. W: You're father's death is about you. Amber's death is about you. No wonder no one wants to be your friend. H: Admit it you're angry and you're afraid of losing me. I don't think House was horribly upset post-DCE. But he probably had his moments of sadness and doubt because we saw how thrilled he was to discover that Cuddy and Wilson had conspired to kidnap him for his father's funeral. It was much needed proof that Wilson still cared for him. And I think its what gave him the opportunity and the confidence to push through Wilson's barriers and provoke him into admitting it. ETA: Cross posted with jair

So my question is: What in the episodes that follow DCE shows that House is horribly upset by that particular statement, rather than Wilson's departure overall? Because it was that statement, the statement House let us know that he was fearing, that convinced him that there was no point in pursuing Wilson any further, that he had to let him go. But House did pursue Wilson further. He hired a PI to stalk Wilson. ETA: Crossposted with maya. maya, your analysis seems right on to me.

I think we saw the hurt and sadness in House's eyes when Wilson said those words to him. But I think House realized that Wilson was talking out of anger and grief and decided to work on getting him to stay and face the fact that he did in fact, enjoy their friendship, dysfunction and all, and that he was running away because he was afraid of losing House. I don't disagree that House hoped this to be the case and it was his analysis of the situation. But I think his joy in Birthmarks was because he did not know for sure that this is how Wilson would come to see things. In any case, I still think that those words were still the most hurtful words Wilson could have said to him, because if true, they negated not just the present but the past--all the memories, good times and yes, support in his own way that they shared. They take House out of Wilson's life in a way that a fight about the present does not. And I don't think House knew for sure they were not true. He just hoped they were not. That's why we saw the hurt and sadness in his eyes.

Look at House and Wilson's friendship objectively, and remember Wilson had spent a lot of time evaluating it himself. Wilson had good reason to conclude that he and House were never really friends.

I was totally heartbroken for both of them in that scene. I thought of the way Wilson had refered to the "friendship" during the previous 4 seasons. It was one of the two things that worked in his life. It was a moral responsability. It was worth lying and risking career and freedom for. It was the one lasting connection of his adult life. I can barely imagine the kind of pain it must have cost Wilson to realize that all that time, he did not have any thing other that his work. I am not saying he was correct in his conclusion but I don't think that House was the only one severely wounded in that scene. As my Tata, used to say the "worst wounds are self-inflicted" (las peores heridas son las que nosotros mismos nos causamos).

Given we are post-DCE and Birthmarks. What does everyone think the writers wants us to take away about the current of the House/Wilson relationship based on their together and apart. For me, my take away is that there's still lots of issues there. The most telling was the conversation House and Wilson had in the cafeteria. Sorry I don't recall which episode - maybe Greater Good. Wilson said to House, he is unable to be kind in a consistent way. I took that to mean something had happened after they made up that put up maybe a emotional half-wall between them. I would agree that there are still a lot of issues there, mainly because they made up in such a superficial way. While both are taking steps to improve their relationship (House leaving the doughnut in Lucky Thirteen, Wilson not enabling House in a decision about Cuddy in Emancipation), you're right, there is still a wall there, and it's spelled A-M-B-E-R. As we saw in The Greater Good, Wilson is still dealing a lot with Amber's death, albeit as privately as he can. I think House is trying to give him the space to do that (maybe that's an explanation for the stunted H/W interaction in the past few episodes), but it is still causing a schism in their relationship. I don't know that they'll ever be able to fully bind that.

For me, my take away is that there's still lots of issues there. It wouldn't be a House and Wilson relationship without issues. It is, and always has been, "stupid" and "screwed up." Just because Wilson has come to a place where he remembers the good parts of his relationship with House -- and not just the negative aspects that were spotlighted by Amber's death -- doesn't mean those original issues aren't there. And I hope to God that they're never solved.

And I hope to God that they're never solved. They'll never be solved, because they'll never be mentioned. I don't think there's any meaning to having limited H/W time lately that goes deeper than the writers are more interested in other things right now. I don't think it has anything to do with how House is feeling or how Wilson's feeling. The writers had them make up pretty quickly because they were ready to move on, and they have. That's that.

Personally, I hope you're wrong LightMyCandle. I hope that it's all a deliberate plot-device on the writer's behalf, and not just a lazy brush-off because they are more interested in writing about other plots. *crossing fingers* I too don't want their screwed-up friendship to ever be completely fixed. But after the W/H plot arc I was hoping there would be some sort of attempt between both of them to fix what Wilson saw as problems in their friendship (the late night phone calls, the binges, the enabling, etc). As Chipmunk_love said, we saw some improvement with House's donut and Wilson's attempt to not persuede House. (And when Wilson didn't let House stay over in The Itch). Small things like that is all that is needed to show that the recent plot arcs have had an affect on them. The recent lack of H/W scenes on the show has definitely been odd. I'd hate for that not to mean something.

I didn't think I could love Wilson more but now I do. He is so hard on himself, and he must be continually exhausted if he's doing that much analysis on other people's needs and wants. :bat: When House said Wilson had no core, I think Wilson really believed/believes him. Amber's exhortation that Wilson needs to take care of himself was flabbergasting in part because he has no idea how to do that, no idea what would make him happy long-term. (Which is a nice parallel to House not really knowing how to take care of himself for long-term happiness, either.) Edited to add new emoticon.Dee, love the new emocon :) Well to say that I love TSC is an understatement. It was a very powerful episode, not only because it gave us insight into Wilson, and H/W but it also connected a lot of loose threads from previous episodes. I came here because I wanted to discuss Wilson's issues. I've been rewatching the episode pretty much non-stop since yesterday. Wilson said his brother's schizophrenia was identified during adolescence. I used identify because he could have had it as early as age 12. It appears that Wilson was in medical school, while his brother was in college. Wilson said he was studying for an exam so he must have been in year 1 or 2. Wilson did his undergraduate at McGill in Canada. I assume he went straight to medical school, which may have been in New York or Boston, Mass. It was close enough or Wilson to go to Princeton as often as he could to look for his brother who was also there attending college at one time. Wilson told House that his brother used to call him every night and talk for hours. So here's the thing that puzzles me. If Danny was that attached to Wilson then why wasn't he calling him and talking for hours when he was in college? Or did Danny develop problems once he started college but was okay as long as he was at home? I need answers. Also, where were the parents? Why would they send their schizophrenic son AWAY to college knowing he did not have good social or personal hygiene? I mean it was just a disaster waiting to happen. Random thoughts: When Wilson was recounting the story of how his brother came to be homeless, I was struck by the exchange between House and Wilson in the bathroom in Needle in a Haystack, where House described Wilson as having no friends when he was growing and making references to old TV shows that no one understood but House. It raises question about Wilson's parents and other sibling. The one that still doesn't have a name. Then there's the episode I think Resignation where Wilson refused to tell House why he was seeing a psychiatrist or the cause of his depression. Wilson described it as personal. Since schizophrenia has a genetic in addition to a psychosocial basis, is it possible Wilson thought he was showing early signs of schizophrenia. Also I just want to mention that new antipsychotics are more effective but they also have serious side effects, including suicidal ideation, and diabetis, and weight gain as well as some others that could cause death. I'm with House. I don't think the Danny thing is going to end well. for. Wilson.

Also I just want to mention that new antipsychotics are more effective but they also have serious side effects, including suicidal ideation, and diabetis, and weight gain as well as some others that could cause death. I'm with House. I don't think the Danny thing is going to end well. for. Wilson. There's also no less of a possibility of heart disease but if the other option is being unable to function in society these side-effects are acceptable and not much worse than those that accompany every other medication on the market. It's also worth noting that yr garden variety anti-depressants such as Prozac and Paxil have the same risks and everyone and they're Great Auntie are on those. It's not out of the question that someone with a severe mental illness can adjust to medication and become a highly functioning member of society, provide he/she has regular monitoring by a psychiatrist. So here's the thing that puzzles me. If Danny was that attached to Wilson then why wasn't he calling him and talking for hours when he was in college? Or did Danny develop problems once he started college but was okay as long as he was at home? I need answers. Also, where were the parents? Why would they send their schizophrenic son AWAY to college knowing he did not have good social or personal hygiene? I mean it was just a disaster waiting to happen. We don't know that Danny's nightly phone calls weren't a long standing tradition. As close as I can tell (I've only seen the ep once), we really only know that one night, when he was in med school, the call was more than Wilson could handle. Maybe it was the stress of med school that made Wilson make that decision and not a drastic change in Danny's actions. We also don't know how old Danny was at this point. He could've spent a couple of years going to school near his parents and shown that he was coping well with the situation thus proving to them that he would be able to handle the transition to going to school away from home. The disintegration could have been gradual and easily attributed to being a typical college student (many of whom have terrible hygiene, even at yr finer schools, believe me) and not someone who was having a mental breakdown. There are many, many possibilities. For example, maybe he didn't tell his parents he was having problems. He certainly wouldn't be the first adult child to lie to his folks about his mental health.

I agree with RSH. It's likely that when Wilson was in college, Danny was living at home and being more closely monitored by his parents, to make sure that he took his meds, and to provide the emotional support that Wilson had to provide later. They may have thought he was ready to be away from home, and it was only when he was away from the home support (and possibly being looser about his medicine regimen) that his social skills and hygiene began to decline. This brings up the question of why Wilson didn't tell his parents that Danny was doing worse, and goes back to the idea that Wilson believing he should take the burden on himself was always part of his personality/character. It was exacerbated by Danny running away, but it had always been there.

Don't forget that this was close to 20 years ago. Wilson last saw his brother in 1995-1996 (9 years before Season 1) but he was already homeless at that time. Wilson would have been at the Columbia School of Oncolgy several years before that. In the early 90s effective anti-psychotic meds were debilitating. Many people went off them because the choice was between having symptoms or being a virtual zombie. Today the choice, once the right medication or combination of meds if found for a patient, is between being a functioning member of society and the possibility of getting an illness that could lead to an early-ish death. Inasmuch as one of the consequences of living on the streets can be premature death, that doesn't seem to be a bad trade-off. Also, when Wilson was in med school lay people (and a 2nd year med student would still count as a lay person) didn't have as much access to info about psychoses as they do today. If one of Danny's symptoms was rambling conversations, the fact that he was now calling Wilson every night and doing it might not be enough to make Wilson realize his brother was getting worse (especially as he wasn't living near enough to observe him in person.)

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