saara_zaara: THANK YOU!!!! I have never had Cameron explained so well. I'm impressed! I've had trouble with her from season one: who is she supposed to be? Your answer--unlike any other I have come across--does not require me to ignore at least half her behavior or fan-wank any inconsistencies or anything! woohoo! On a lighter note and to accentuate the positive... :wink: how about a "Cameron's finest moment" fest? Just as a isolated scene with no underlying HAM aroma or any other meaning or associations, I loved the scene when House makes her ride on his bike with him. Anyone else have a favorite Cameron scene?

I loved the grin on her face when she was on the bike with him. Other Cam moments: At the monster truck rally (especially the teasing wit h the cotton candy) When she took the hint in Daddy's Boy and introduced herself to House's parents and left. "Jell-o shots and wild sex." Perfect line, perfectly delivered. When she stood up to House re searching the wife in Clueless. Yes, she was ultimately proved wrong, but that would have been an awfully invasive thing to do just on a hunch. And their sniping at each other in Cuddy's office was perfect (Are you calling me childish?) I liked her a lot in Euphoria even if I didn't like the episodes. When House caught her searching Joe's apartment I liked the eager "didn't I do good" way she told him why she selected each item. She displayed a nice mix of "I defied you by coming here but you are still my mentor and I want you to be proud of me." (Plus, House stopping her with the cane and then looming over her remains the most sexually tense H-C moment to date -- including the kiss.)

I still don't know if Cameron is this complex character... I want to believe, but... Somehow I have this strong suspicious that she is just a character that didn't work the way they wanted or needed. The actress was wrong, the character's story was wrong and even the reactions about her were wrong. She became controversial to some fans, not sympathetic. They keep trying to make things work and it just seems to make her more inconsistent. Some of her actions with collegues and patients are extremely unethical and disrespectful, yet I don't remember anyone on the show call her on that. I can agree that maybe it was the intention since the beginning to show the audience her damage, but for me just seemed they were supporting her actions no matter how bad it will seem. All the other characters are damage, but the writers don't give then a pass. There's always someone pointing their "bad" behavior. I don't want to blame JMo for my dislike of the character. I guess she is an averange actress, not better or worst than so many others. But she also doesn't seem to understand Cameron - specially, I think she has some problems understanding Cameron's attraction to House, and once they put her with Chase she seemed more natural and relaxed (IMO) I try, I really do, but I can't find a way to like, understand or care about Cameron - and still I'm here, talking about her... They must be doing somenting right after all. :o

The degree of narcissism involved in believing that is a sign of damage to me. Narcissism is a really good term for her. I'm not a shrink, so I don't pretend to understand what would trigger that degree of narcissism in a person - anyone any thoughts about who drives a person such as Cameron in that direction? yet I don't remember anyone on the show call her on that Some of the things she does don't get found out, but you're right, she doesn't typically get called on it or any attempt to rolls off her back. Cuddy in the "you're sleeping with Chase" scene, for example, she essentially ignores because of her narcissism - but note, the audience doesn't accept what she does, even her fans have a huge problem with the sex at work stuff. She gets called by Cuddy on her idiocy over the paper. And I think the narcissism is part of the point, that Cameron doesn't really get the politics of what's going on around her & how to manage either Foreman or House (same thing happens over Foreman's appointment when House is suspended). But she does get called on it & reined in occasionally - Wilson calls her on calling the press in Spin & she does back off as a result, though I think its also partly because she's confronted with the reality of Stacy breathing down everyone's neck. The really key time she gets called on something & it works) IMO is Chase in AYA - the "you don't get to be mad" comment. Chase in that entire ep is the voice of reason to her behavior & it continues through the Chameron arc (I'd love to have heard the conversation they had if/when Chase told her that House admitted sabotaging Foreman's interview). I love the cotton candy scene myself & did actually like Cameron until the date - & it was then that the smugness drove me away. Part of the problem with the performance is that JMo buys into the fanwank about who Cameron herself & that leads to the inconsistencies at times; the performance is definitely IMO the weakest of the cast. I have a problem with some of her press - the coming from a lot of loss thing is interesting, but has DS actually said that independently & directly himself (not just credited by JMo)? & if she's got a lot of loss, what does that say about Chase (alcoholic mother who died on him when he was a teenager after being the sole caretaker for 5 years because he was abandoned by his father). He manages to hold it together a lot better than she does. Somehow I have this strong suspicious that she is just a character that didn't work the way they wanted or needed. The actress was wrong, the character's story was wrong and even the reactions about her were wrong. She became controversial to some fans, not sympathetic. They keep trying to make things work and it just seems to make her more inconsistent. Good point & I suspect you are right here - this is pure speculation, not based on spoilers, but I seriously wonder what is in store for the character & whether TPTB can correct course or they will simply move on to deal with characters without the baggage. Cameron's an incredibly polarizing character - high positives are good for a show, but there's a problem when you also have it coupled with the kind of negative perceptions she has.

Saara, I had thought about that scene with Wilson (because I usually think about Wilson :) ) but I didn't think that Cameron was the one looking bad in that scene, at all. She called the press, Wilson prevented her intentions, but at the end Cameron still seemed the "good one" because she didn't cheat, she had self control. Wilson was the cheater, the liar - I didn't see him that way, but I guess a lot of fans did - and the PotW was an ass who didn't deserve any sympathy, let alone credit. He was a bad example. When Cuddy talked to her about the sexcapades (did I write this right?) it seemed that she (Cuddy) was worried about Cameron getting hurt, not Chase. The audience knew about the FWB yet some fans were still worried that she could be hurt, even some not-Cam-fans. And with the article thing, Cuddy gave her a good advice, yet Cuddy was the one that seemed cold and indifferent about her problems. The really key time she gets called on something & it works) IMO is Chase in AYA I agree here. But it was a personal problem between the two of them. It could affect their jobs but no one other than Chase called her on it. high positives are good for a show, but there's a problem when you also have it coupled with the kind of negative perceptions she has Yes, usually there is. Sometimes I wonder what is the reaction that the averange audience (not the obsessed ones :wink: ) has to her character.

I also think that a large part of the problem with the character of Cameron is the actress. I remember an interview in which JMo described Cameron as a "role model." None of these characters are role models, and I don't think that they were ever designed to be. So that just validates my impression that she doesn't understand her character well. Part of the problem with the Chase/Cameron arc (although it mostly worked for me; there seemed to be logical progression) IMO is that JMo didn't sell Cameron's conflicted feelings. One scene specifically that I remember is when she and Chase break up at the end of Airborne. When she says, "And now it's over," I could literally see the direction on the script to be "with regret." JMo got half-way there; I could see what she was trying to achieve, but the fact that so many people believed that she was a cold, unfeeling bitch in that moment really underscored the fact that she has a lot of growing to do as an actress. I think she does fine when she's working with stronger performers, especially in the ensemble scenes like the DDX. When there's rapid fire delivery, light comedic moments, or sarcastic lines, I think she's in her element. I see a future for her in sitcoms. But when JMo has a one-on-one scene with a patient or angsty, serious dialogue, I get really bored.

Lully, I absolutely see your point about how many people saw those scenes. My own view may be a bit abnormal ( :lol: ) but I have my own whacked out take on them. I'm going to stray a bit into Wilson here, so bear with me given this is the Cameron thread. In Spin, my personal opinion wasn't that Wilson looked bad & Cameron good. YMMV! Its all about the spin! The coin spinning showed that Wilson's lines were more clearly & firmly defined wrt to patients (privacy/ethics), but he was more flexible wrt his marriages (personal/morals). Cameron OTH confirmed my view that she's screwed up & ego-centric (I have since learned that lovely word, narcissistic). Her world view says inflexibility on personal issues (can't sleep with friend even in dire h/c circumstances), but its okay to screw my patients (lol pun - to hell with ethics & patient confidentiality) if I can get away with it. They are on opposite sides of the coin. I don't think Wilson's "you didn't sleep with him" was in any way admiring, I think its (& the episode) are supposed to be a recognition that Cameron's priorities are probably not the norm for a doctor and/or the reverse of Wilson's (& this is partly why I can't buy a Cam/Wilson ship). Superficially it looks like Cameron's this wonderful selfless person who didn't sleep around, but note, she doesn't say anything about what the impact of her doing so would be on PDH. She defines the situation purely in terms of impact on herself - its actually yet another (subtle) statement about her egocentrism. JMO (ha, just my opinion!). Upshot, I didn't walk away from the episode admiring Cameron, I admired the subtlety of the message & that its yet another instance of the Cameron prettiness covering over what's really going on. misere, that's a really interesting quote from JMo, and yes, it really does illustrate how little she understands the character. I've always been skeptical about her pres statements (IIRC I said this upthread), but that one really confirms it. Its not just about none of the characters not being role models, Cameron in particular with her behavior certainly isn't to me even dating back to the very beginning of s1. Its very interesting because it explains how she has also apparently according to press rumors jumped on the "s3 Cameron is OOC". How on earth does JMo explain that methsex & stealing drugs makes Cameron a role model? - she's a model of what not to do. (Sorry for the length, its really nice to have an intelligent conversation about Cameron & edited because it would be nice if I could spell).

God! This place is like an addiction! JMo didn't sell Cameron's conflicted feelings Exactly. She is good with "cute" lines, light moments, but she can't sold deep emotions and feelings. The character seems to be too much for her acting skills. She always come as angry or bitter or confuse or smug and her expression is pretty much the same. It's frustrating! I have a very similar view of that scene in Spin, Saara, but I doubt that we're in the majority - the whole whacked out thing, you see :) And, at the end what matters is how the majority of the audience will perceive a scene. Here we have this sense that Cameron isn't who she seems to be but I'd like to see this point of view to be proved . I love ambiguity, but sometimes a clear statemet can do wonders to the enjoiment of the show. And just to prove that I can see cute Cameron's moments, here's mine, from Distractions: "Do you want a pillow?"

And, at the end what matters is how the majority of the audience will perceive a scene. The question I puzzle over is whether TPTB are getting what's on the page translated into what they want on the screen. I could probably make a good argument, purely speculative, that they are not. There have been hints that the Tritter arc played out darker than they thought it would, same thing might apply to the JMo/Cameron performance - is the sympathetic figure they thought they wrote being scene mucked up by the anger (rather than angst) in JMo's work, is she simply not capable of the dramatic range they though, or are they getting the anger/drama but its being confused by the schmoopy hints JMo throws in (the arm touch in HE, which drives me nuts, she's just come from Chase, for goodness sake). If what they want isn't being conveyed on the screen resulting in an audience reaction which isn't what they were after, does that have implications for what they invest into the character in the future? God! This place is like an addiction! Psst... want some vicodin? :lol: Seriously though - does anyone have the impression that the writers went on a jag of "how close can we get to killing off Cameron without actually doing it" in S3? Or were they trying to build sympathy (didn't work for me).

Or were they trying to build sympathy (didn't work for me). I found it amusing and was cheering the ones trying to kill her. That cannot have been the intention of the writers...

I think JMo recognized that with the methsex, etc., Cameron was a person screwing up because she was in a crisis that she didn't really have the resources to handle. The thing with Cameron in S3 was that she seemed to have nothing going on to freak her out or make her angry or anything that would inspire her to say, hey, why not blow off the patient for sex in the sleep lab? She was just doing stupid things for no apparent reason. I don't think it's too difficult to fanwank possible reasons, but the show didn't provide any. I don't want to blame JMo for my dislike of the character. I guess she is an averange actress, not better or worst than so many others. But she also doesn't seem to understand Cameron - specially, I think she has some problems understanding Cameron's attraction to House, and once they put her with Chase she seemed more natural and relaxed (IMO) ITA. JMo may have found the writing OOC, but she did a great job of making Cameron sparkle in these scenes, with mischief in Top Secret and Airborne, aggravation in the Tuesday scenes and a whole emotional gamut in AYA. I think my favorite Cameron moments are mostly already here, but I also liked the "gal Friday" type scene with the files in Sex Kills, the scene at the vending machine in AYA, and I love her reaction in the scene in Autopsy where they found out that Chase kissed Andie. (Although of course, everyone was fantastic in Autopsy.) Heh. I liked the arm touch in HE, because it seemed rather clear to me that any sexual tension on Cameron's part had pretty much left the room. Seemed like a neat counterpoint to her scene with House in No Reason in that respect.

I know! I mean, George almost crushing her was kinda comedic - it probably didn't help that she looked kinda anorexic in the shot (sorry, but JMo looked seriously underweight to me early s3), which sent an undercurrent of maybe Cameron's the other side of the equation of an eating disorder, but how sympathetic can you get when you know that she's in that situation because she lied to George & drugged him without his knowledge? Its interesting, she doesn't get called on what she does, but there are consequences - we witness Cameron's moral decline in that ep. & I find it weird how many people approve of what she did. If OTOH you ask how would they feel if a doctor drugged them without their consent so they passed out & fell through a window they are horrified & ready to sue. Odd disconnect there.

I also think that a large part of the problem with the character of Cameron is the actress. I remember an interview in which JMo described Cameron as a "role model." None of these characters are role models, and I don't think that they were ever designed to be. So that just validates my impression that she doesn't understand her character well A completely agree. I was really baffled that she described Cameron as a role model. A professional doctor who is more focused on the men in her department than her job is not someone I would look up to. I also agree that none of these people are role models. I also remember her saying that Cameron hates the fact that she's in love with House and I was like, :? Wha??? If she hated the fact that she liked House then she wouldn't have tried so hard to get into a relationship with him, she wouldn't constantly stick her nose in his business, she wouldn't hug him or help him into slings...need I go on? So yeah the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that JMo is not really in touch with the reality of Cameron. She is good with "cute" lines, light moments, She has light moments? Then why is that frown/shocked/ticked look always stuck to her face. I'm afraid her mouth is gonna get stuck that way.

Although of course, everyone was fantastic in Autopsy So true :D Autopsy is my favorite episode of the whole show! But back to Cameron, the thing is I never believed that she was casting like a love interest. She was there to be one of the guys who worked for House. When they needed "romance" to make things more interesting they put her on that role (for me they just made things more uninteresting, but that's just me). And JMo failed. And Cameron became unlikeable. The question I puzzle over is whether TPTB are getting what's on the page translated into what they want on the screen. I wish someone could answer this question because I think they aren't. I'm watching the last episodes of season 3 here and I guess that they're trying to put Cameron in her original role again. Damage, naive, silly, annoying, but likeable - if Chase can like her, she can't be so bad, or something like that. I think they're trying to kill the love!sick!Cameron and I hope they succeed. want some vicodin? Yes, please! :wink: ETA: She has light moments Very few... But the pillow thing, the bike one (I hated it, but it was light), that whole "hit on Wendy" conversation. I'm sure there're others, but I'm really not paying much attention :)