I'm in the Room!: Dr. Allison Cameron

Chase only said it was painful.No, he didn't only say it was painful. He said it's "the most painful place to cut into." There is a difference there. The show obviously wanted us to know that Cameron did a bad thing, because Chase's line implies that there are other places Cameron could have cut into. Otherwise, his line is pointless. And I'm pretty sure none of the lines on this show are pointless. I think we all know that a lot of medical exams and tests are painful; the show doesn't have to spell out that basic premise for us. There are varying degrees of pain and discomfort, however, and you can sometimes get the same answer with less pain (by using less invasive tests, for example). We know Cameron doesn't like Jeff because she doesn't approve of his cheating ways, and then we learn she did a biopsy in the most painful place to cut into. To me, that seems deliberate on the part of the writer.

Chase only said it was painful.No, he didn't only say it was painful. He said it's "the most painful place to cut into." There is a difference there. The show obviously wanted us to know that Cameron did a bad thing, because Chase's line implies that there are other places Cameron could have cut into. Otherwise, his line is pointless. And I'm pretty sure none of the lines on this show are pointless. I think we all know that a lot of medical exams and tests are painful; the show doesn't have to spell out that basic premise for us. There are varying degrees of pain and discomfort, however, and you can sometimes get the same answer with less pain (by using less invasive tests, for example). We know Cameron doesn't like Jeff because she doesn't approve of his cheating ways, and then we learn she did a biopsy in the most painful place to cut into. To me, that seems deliberate on the part of the writer. Sorry, I disagree here. Maybe this is a situation where the writing is just so ambiguous. Because if Chase's lines are sacred in this brief exchange, then so must Cameron's be. Are they looking for a definitive diagnosis or aren't they? Is biopsying his thigh the best place or isn't it? Since Chase doesn't counteract that assertion, I guess I'm left to believe that it is, indeed, the best place to look. Wouldn't it be worse if Cameron made a painful incision elsewhere, all for naught, because they couldn't reach a definitive answer? Is Chase arguing that it's more painful because it's in the thigh or because Jeff's a biker and depends on his thighs more than the average person? It's hard to say. To me the writer is also saying that Cameron is very persistent in tracking down the diagnosis, much like House is. This, too, is a common refrain about her character that fits into the picture at large. House really doesn't care how painful the tests are as long as he gets his diagnosis. Cameron's crime here seems to be that she doesn't much care that Jeff experienced any pain. That's a fair point to argue. Cameron's usually all about sending get well cards to all her patients but in this case, she didn't respect the guy and just didn't care. (It's actually a bit of growth for her from earlier in the season where she cared too much about Cindy Lou Who and didn't want to do a painful, but definitive, biopsy.) But her not caring is a far cry from her making an unsound, ethically challenged medical choice. At least based on the evidence we're given in this episode.

Considering Jeff was a biker, it seems reasonable to me that the best, most conditioned, muscle to sample was probably, yes, in his thigh. It may have been the easiest/best place for the biopsy but it wasn't the only one and I have no doubt that if this were a patient that Cameron liked, she would not have taken the "easiest" way. She would have done it in a way that was least painful to the patient. (It's actually a bit of growth for her from earlier in the season where she cared too much about Cindy Lou Who and didn't want to do a painful, but definitive, biopsy.) I don't think that's growth, because to me it's still letting her emotions rule her job. If she really had no feelings for Jeff then it would have been growth but she very clearly did not like him. So, if her only crime was not caring that he went through pain, then she only didn't care because she didn't like him, not because she was learning to distance herself from her patients.

It may have been the easiest/best place for the biopsy but it wasn't the only one and I have no doubt that if this were a patient that Cameron liked, she would not have taken the "easiest" way. She would have done it in a way that was least painful to the patient. I don't mean "easiest" in that it was the most convenient place for her to reach, but "easiest" in that it was most likely to give them an accurate result. The dialogue tells me that this was the best place to get a sample they could work with. I have no reason to believe otherwise nor does any other character, apparently. That being the case....explain to me again why it is that Cameron should be looking elsewhere to biopsy? How often does House mock the fellows for trying to be too polite or too nice to the patients at the risk of finding their answers only at the autopsy? We even saw House fall prey to this question when he was examining Cate but let her keep her socks on because he liked her. And he missed something huge. No one objecting in this thread is answering the either/or question. If it comes down to "best" versus "more painful" which is the morally right method in which to proceed?

Cameron said she figured it was the best place. We don't know that it's true. It may be. Or it may be one of several equally good places and she convinced herself that it was the best place because, subconsciously, she knew that it was the most painful of the options. I don't think anyone is saying that Cameron is sadistic. But when she likes a patient she all but strews rose petals in their paths as they walk down the corridors. And when they fail to meet her standards she takes muscle samples from the most painful place to cut into, she takes skin biopsies without any local anesthesia, etc. So if, by your logic, a doctor in PPTH's Diagnostics Dept. gives the best care to patients he/she does not try to be considerate of, it would seem that Cameron only gives excellent care to those she disapproves of.

No one objecting in this thread is answering the either/or question. If it comes down to "best" versus "more painful" which is the morally right method in which to proceed? Whichever way Cameron wouldn't do it. :P I see Cameron as a flawed character...not unlike House,Wilson, Cuddy, Chase, and Foreman. It's why I find her interesting.

Cameron said she figured it was the best place. We don't know that it's true. It may be. Or it may be one of several equally good places and she convinced herself that it was the best place because, subconsciously, she knew that it was the most painful of the options. If that's the case, then Chase may have just said it was the most painful to cut into because he just figures that is so, not necessarily because it's true. My question is, why would we accept Chase's line that it's the most painful without equally accepting Cameron's line that it's the best? Why should one line automatically be given more credence over the other? I mean, assuming these lines are put there for a purpose, that is. I don't think anyone is saying that Cameron is sadistic. Now I know you're joking. I've definitely heard this line of reasoning before. But when she likes a patient she all but strews rose petals in their paths as they walk down the corridors. And when they fail to meet her standards she takes muscle samples from the most painful place to cut into, she takes skin biopsies without any local anesthesia, etc. In this instance, the only thing I see Cameron guilty of is not throwing down rose petals in their paths. The only time I saw Cameron actually lash out was with Ezra. And then, of course, Ezra's reaction was one of near pride, so...whatever. My whole point was that fandom automatically assigns these 3 great sins to Cameron and yet, how they're actually portrayed doesn't wholly support those interpretations. So if, by your logic, a doctor in PPTH's Diagnostics Dept. gives the best care to patients he/she does not try to be considerate of, it would seem that Cameron only gives excellent care to those she disapproves of. No. I saw Cameron as not being particularly empathetic to Jeff in this episode. She was morally opposed to his drugging. Her lack of empathy was, for her, quite a striking difference but I didn't see that as particularly criminal behavior. She didn't let it stop her from diligently searching for the correct diagnosis. If it were a patient she cared about personally, she might have spoken gently with them, warned them it was going to hurt, kissed their boo-boo or whatever. Since she didn't like him, she skipped all the fawning and just got the job done. (And frankly, since her biopsy with Jeff happened off screen, all that is really speculation anyway.) I suspect if the show wanted us to believe that Cameron really just goes around hurting patients they would have showed us actually hurting him.

I don't think she actively tries to hurt them. (As I said, I don't think she's sadistic.) But I also don't think she cares if she hurts them. And, when she approves of a patient, she cares too much. She needs to find that middle ground but I don't think she is even looking for it.

How often does House mock the fellows for trying to be too polite or too nice to the patients at the risk of finding their answers only at the autopsy? And how often does she do it anyway? She's not above defying House or treating patients politely despite House's mocking. I know how you meant easiest and I still think that if she liked the guy she would have made sure she got the biopsy from a less painful place and argued that it was just as good as getting it from the thigh. The only time I saw Cameron actually lash out was with Ezra. I disagree, I'm sorry but I thought she was purposely being too rough on Hannah, sure that was probably a painful procedure no matter what but she didn't have to do it like that all the while lecturing her on what a bad person she was. I see Cameron as a flawed character...not unlike House,Wilson, Cuddy, Chase, and Foreman. It's why I find her interesting. Flaws are all well and good but I would prefer if they, as doctors, do not abuse their powers as such and physically hurt their patients. I have a more of a problem with that than I do anyone else's flaws. To me there is no excuse for hurting a patient because you disapprove of the way they live. And the fact that she has a pattern of this behavior and has yet to show any remorse for it or even acknowledge that it's wrong disturbs me to no end. At least House and Wilson have acknowledged their flaws.

How often does House mock the fellows for trying to be too polite or too nice to the patients at the risk of finding their answers only at the autopsy? Somehow I doubt that House was trying to encourage unnecessary painful procedures or hypocritical moral judgements with his mockery... But I can be wrong... The thing about the procedure with Jeff that got my attention was that after Chase informed us how painful was the place she chose to cut into, she shrugs. For me is clear that she could have avoided hurting him so much, but she didn't because she didn't care if he'd suffer or not. He didn't deserve her compassion, he was out of her little circle of chosen.

I thought the whole idea of the Ezra story was that Cameron did find a way to overcome her 1. dislike of the patient and 2. do the right thing for the patient, in spite of her feelings. I don't believe TPTB would have put Cameron in the ER if she was meant to be seen as a doctor who is incapable of setting aside her moral superiority to everyone.

And how often does she do it anyway? She's not above defying House or treating patients politely despite House's mocking. I know how you meant easiest and I still think that if she liked the guy she would have made sure she got the biopsy from a less painful place and argued that it was just as good as getting it from the thigh. As a character, why should she argue that a different place is the best place to get a biopsy from if it isn't? That doesn't make any sense and, in fact, would make her a poor doctor. Her big failing here is that she didn't have empathy for Jeff (boo hoo!) not that she deliberately went out of her way to hurt him since both the show, and real life, has shown she made a medical decision based on what was most likely to get them the results they needed. I disagree, I'm sorry but I thought she was purposely being too rough on Hannah, sure that was probably a painful procedure no matter what but she didn't have to do it like that all the while lecturing her on what a bad person she was. Again, Cameron's failing was that she was not particularly "nice" to Hannah which is a departure from little miss sunshine. How was Cameron supposed to "do" the procedure? I'm not sure I understand. She was calm, she was efficient, she got in, she got out, she wasn't maliciously jamming the thing down the patient's throat. She numbed the patient's throat. She was in full view of nursing staff. Short of knocking Hannah out completely (which is overkill and likely makes the task more difficult, not less) that's a procedure that's just plain going to be uncomfortable. It is what it is. There's really no gentle way to run a snake down your shower drain, either. Flaws are all well and good but I would prefer if they, as doctors, do not abuse their powers as such and physically hurt their patients. And since no one on this thread has accurately described how it is Cameron was supposed to get the diagnostic results in any other manner than what she did, I consider this a rather absurd argument. Sometimes treatment hurts. That's just life. Cameron's problem is whether or not she can empathize with a patient's pain not that she's deliberately causing them pain for no reason.

Cameron's problem is whether or not she can empathize with a patient's pain not that she's deliberately causing them pain for no reason. And if she's not empathizing with a patient, what are her reasons for that? Is it (a) she's judging them, or (b) that she thinks House will respect (and, in turn love) her more for it.

Cameron's problem is whether or not she can empathize with a patient's pain not that she's deliberately causing them pain for no reason. And if she's not empathizing with a patient, what are her reasons for that? Is it (a) she's judging them, or (b) that she thinks House will respect (and, in turn love) her more for it. I absolutely think she's judging them. I'm not questioning that. What I'm questioning is that she's a sociopath going out of her way to physically hurt them because I'm not seeing the evidence. For a person who is described as all-too caring, it's jarring to see her not care. But not caring does not equal intentional harm. There is a big difference. Your option b. is not a manner in which I see Cameron operating at all. I don't think she's angling for House's love. She may want his respect as he's clearly pre-eminent in his field and her boss, but I don't think that she does what she does for House's affections. YMMV.

If that's the case, then Chase may have just said it was the most painful to cut into because he just figures that is so, not necessarily because it's true. My question is, why would we accept Chase's line that it's the most painful without equally accepting Cameron's line that it's the best? Why should one line automatically be given more credence over the other? I mean, assuming these lines are put there for a purpose, that is. Because Chase does not have an emotional involvement in this case and Cameron does--her negative feelings are driving her part of the story. There's no dramatic reason for Chase to comment on Cameron's choice of biopsy place other than to highlight that she chose the most painful spot. Given her negative emotions, that's significant. The lines as just commenting on the procedure don't have a dramatic purpose. The lines as highlighting how Cameron's negative emotions affect her patient care, do. And that aspect has been carried through for Cameron in other shows. She's not just not Little Miss Sunshine. She actively tries to cause pain when doing procedures on people she disapproves of.

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