So it all leads me to wonder if, at some point, House is going to be looking for his female Wilson and find it in the most likely candidate at this point, Cameron. No fur flying here, either, though I have a different opinion on both points. I haven't seen much build up for Cameron as a female Wilson. I think there's been more build up for Wilson being House's Wilson than Cameron. I'm not at all sure they are going there, but I see even less evidence Cameron is the ultimate pairing. House is the ultimate possessive friend and lover, and I think it was significant that he was not possessive of Cameron when she tried on the hospital sex games. My opinion of that little episode was Cameron was using desperate measures to provoke some jealousy after she scored the kiss. She didn't get any. I think House cares for Cameron, as he cares for Chase and Foreman, and he enjoys some of his interactions with her when she wants to play a game, but he doesn't seek her out and never has, other than confirming she'd come back to PPTH. Cameron's arc to me is coming to terms with her obsessive crush and moving on, and the scene in Ugly was showing that she's got a ways to go yet. I suspect she may have a rocky road with Chase, who is a better match for high maintenance Cameron than high maintenance House is. I have to say I don't see any evidence for that. I wouldn't suggest that Cameron and Wilson toss back beers together when House isn't looking, but as of the end of season 3, they are certainly on good footing with each other. As usual, their conversations revolve around House and his antics but they are clearly on friendly, speaking terms. I think we've seen Cameron and Wilson on speaking terms about House, but I haven't seen any friendly interaction this season or last. They had their big blowout in MLC, which Cameron never apologised for, and their relationship has recovered enough to be civil. In Half Wit, Wilson rolls his eyes when Cameron runs up to pin him down on what House is up to. I think the fact that he told her is more a tribute to her obsessiveness when on the scent of something she wants than friendship with Wilson. Wilson did tease House that Cameron called him from Arizona, but it wasn't true, so I don't place a lot of stock in that as Wilson and Cameron being buddies. They're not enemies or avoiding each other, but I haven't seen friendship in the writing. From a narrative perspective, I just don't feel that's the story that they're ultimately telling. I especially don't find that true when the largest demographic of House viewers is, apparently, the 18-25 year old male group. In other words, the demo probably least likely to stick around for some sort of sexual re-awakening between House and Wilson no matter how gloriously told. I'd like to think TPTB haven't divided their audience into various factions of shipperdom. To me, it seems like your first point doesn't support the second. I think TPTB aim for somewhere in the middle, with some real storytelling chops from David Shore. He knows he's in a business and he pays attention to his audience, so I think he does think about throwing a bone here and there. But at the same time, he's committed to telling the story he wants and he's willing to take it places that may alienate some people. I think he's let go the Cameron/House storyline and gone in different directions, and Wilson and House's relationship has become ever more important and is still being defined. I don't think Shore is afraid of the hoyay, and he is interested in what they mean to each other, whether the 18-25 year old male demo is or not. However, like you, I think House is destined to end up alone, at least romantically, so I have no sense Wilson and House ending up as a couple is a given. I think they do both have an immense love for each other but to me canon shows that these are two heterosexual men that both have physical appreciation for the ladies. To me canon has been much more ambivalent on both men's sexuality. Clearly both are able to be attracted to women, and in House's case, fall in love. But the writers have been very clear that House views sexuality as fluid and not fixed in a heterosexual direction. The comment he made to (I think) Cameron when he suggests the young man may have had sex with his friend and still not define himself as homosexual shows he can imagine all kinds of sexual interest, and he's actually been as complimentary about Chase's looks as Cameron's. Young men in the 18-25 demo may as a general category be jumpy about homesexuality, but House the character has been shown to not care in the least about other people's boxes. I see House as someone who falls in love with a person, not a gender. Wilson's multiple marriages which fail in part due to Wilson's attention to House is suggestive, and the last ep had the writers playing with how suggestive it is. They like the grey areas.

Great post Jair, I agreed with all your main points. Anyway, back to the Wilson/Amber thread... :wink: I still don't know what to think about her. As filex pointed out, she seems even more needy than the previous wives, but unlike them, perhaps, she is more agressive and determined. I was rewathing her scenes with House, and in the apartment scene she seems so challenging. That scene is a confrontation not only from House's part. The same happened in the restaurant - now she calls him Greg, because they're equals, being with Wilson allows her to be House's equal (how disturbing...). Sure, we can read that statement as a joke, but since the tone of the episode wasn't exactly funny, maybe she was expressing some truth. And then the scene in House's office where she seems so proud of herself, so secure. She had lost the fellowship, but she won Wilson (I do think she have a better trade here!). I don't know how to read her! But I don't believe she have changed, nor Wilson. And if the writers resist the urge to put their story in the background I think they finally found an opponent to House...

I don't think House and Amber are exactly the same with different sex organs. They are similiar personality types, not identical personality types. Neither do I, but canon specifically set up Amber to be like House, I don't think Cameron was set up to be a female Wilson. There's no reason to think that two characters searching for answers in their life should automatically be coming to the same realizations at the exact same time. True, but HAM in all forms has been practically nonexistent this year. They could have thrown in some hints. I don't count the comment in Ugly, because it came from Cameron, and it's no surprise there that the girl can't move on. Cuddy's basic personality is nothing like Wilson's. I never argued that it was and I never argued that House and Cuddy could make it in the long haul, but he does care about Cuddy. I feel safe enough to say (especially this season) that he's closer to Cuddy than he is to Cameron and that he would seek her out above Cameron. Cuddy tries to psychoanalyze House just as Wilson and Cameron do, so if that's what he's looking for, he can find it in Cuddy. Cuddy also is better at bantering than Cameron. Wilson's very good at this too. Wilson and Cuddy may not be all that much alike but they do share some qualities. They're not enemies or avoiding each other, but I haven't seen friendship in the writing. Agreed. I don't think they're enemies but I don't believe they're friends either. see even less evidence Cameron is the ultimate pairing. House is the ultimate possessive friend and lover, and I think it was significant that he was not possessive of Cameron when she tried on the hospital sex games. WORD. Some people have rationalized that House was jealous of the C/C hook up but being that he showed none of his typical jealous behavior, I think they were just grasping.

I see your problem with the words, george. In Portuguese we have so many words and verbs that sometimes I don't know exactly which one to use... I don't think being needy necessarily makes someone weak. House has weakness moments, but he is not weak, nevertheless, he is needy. Amber is someone who thinks she needs to be right, so she can get approval from others. Someone who chooses respect, instead of love - because love, alone, wouldn't give her what she wants. Suddenly she found a man who can offer both. Lucky for her, who must be starving! She is very needy, but, like House, she deflects this idea with an outrageous behaviour. Her neediness, as well as House's, makes her strong and weak at the same time. She scares me a little... Or maybe I'm just trying to find a way to sink this ship :roll:

george, in English, needy doesn't have to carry the sense of weak or helpless, but more that the person is lacking something and is dependent on others to provide it. For example, persons who are poor are said to be in need, or needy. It doesn't make them weak, just lacking money. I won't go into all the things House is in need of, but he depends on Wilson to provide many of them. So though he is not weak, he is dependent in that sense.

Never fear bailey no dissent just discussion. If we all saw everything the same way all of the time it would get pretty damn dull around here. Plus do not forget, we love you. :wub: But here’s where I see things differently. I don't see House and Wilson as gay, bi, gay just for each other or bi just for each other. I think they do both have an immense love for each other but to me canon shows that these are two heterosexual men that both have physical appreciation for the ladies. I'm not going to go through the trouble of trying to prove a negative--in other words, I suppose one could argue that House or Wilson could have had same-sex relationships in the past because canon doesn't say that they didn't---but I'm sticking with what the the program has shown me, not what it hasn't. ITA that if the show has not shown me or told me something than it cannot be accepted as fact. You are right there is no information that either House or Wilson has been involved in a same sex relationship or even experience in the past but that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t be in the future. Part of the story of DEC was that people can fundamentally change the way they live their life (which is not saying that they are changing the person that they are) and it does not mean that either the old way of living or the new way of living is a lie or that the two ways are incompatible. 13: "How do we know that the real Roz isn't who she is now and who she was then? Can't we say her previous life was true without making her present one a fraud?" That idea reflects back on the possibility that House and Wilson may have a new way of approaching their friendship, their sexual and/or romantic life in the future (together or separately) that in no way means that how they approached it in the past is negated or invalidated because of it. I am, however, of the opinion that House and Wilson aren't necessarily recognizing any new feelings for one another. I think they've always been there... it's just that the show has taken it's sweet time unveiling the depth of their friendship. I don’t think we are differing that much here. I didn’t say the feelings House is having now towards Wilson are new but that the depth was new or at least newly realized. While we have always seen that they care for each other, even when they act in ways that put that at risk, the extent and the breadth of that caring is being revealed now not just to the audience but to them as well. You can have a relationship or friendship and something can happen to challenge or make you reassess it. That can either hurt it or make you realize how much you truly value it. It’s not that valuing it is new but your understanding of how much and in what ways you value it becomes clearer. In Frozen and Don't Ever Change, I feel that Wilson has finally managed to understand that what keeps him tied to House is something that could equally keep him tied to a female partner. I think Wilson fundamentally understands his relationship with House. I think he's been mistaken in thinking that he needed an entirely different dynamic with a woman in order to have a successful romantic relationship. In the past he has chosen women that don't resemble House at all and they have crashed and burned spectacularly. The lightbulb flicked on a little late for him, but he's finally reconciled that the dynamics he craves in his friendship with House would serve him equally well in a relationship with Amber I agree that Wilson now sees House like qualities in a woman he wants to date as a plus and that makes perfect sense. But we don’t really know that the women Wilson has chosen in the past didn’t resemble House. We don’t know enough about them and as we said if we haven’t seen it we can’t say that it happened. Wife #1: We know NOTHING. Wife #2 Bonnie: Was so resentful of House so early on in the going that on their Honeymoon she damned the poor dog with the name Hector in a way that would always be a constant reminder of how much she disliked her new husband’s best friend. That’s pretty spiteful so maybe ole Bonnie had a lot more guile at that time then she appears to have now. Wife #3 Julie: We know nothing about her except she hated House and when Wilson neglected her for the first year and half that we were watching him she went out and cheated on him so no Girl Scout there either. Also if the wives were all needy then they did resemble House in that way because House with his life-long dearth of relationships was always in need of a friend. I think it is possible, likely really, that W/A start as a romance and it will become a situation where they are better suited to being friends. The relationship may change but it can still be maintained in a way that benefits them both. It would still be significantly the first relationship outside of House that Wilson would have a chance to maintain because in addition to not being able to keep a romantic partner, Wilson hasn’t been able to have any other friendships either and know he no longer has to worry about House trying to ruin it. Instead whatever happens with W/A I hope it inspires House to become a better friend to Wilson. Where I divert from the Hoyay path is that I don't think this realization is code for House and Wilson waiting for the right moment to become intimate with each other. Not at all. From a narrative perspective, I just don't feel that's the story that they're ultimately telling. I especially don't find that true when the largest demographic of House viewers is, apparently, the 18-25 year old male group. In other words, the demo probably least likely to stick around for some sort of sexual re-awakening between House and Wilson no matter how gloriously told. So then from a narrative perspective are you saying that it is a mere coincidence that during this particular episode they decide to introduce the fact to the audience that 13 is a bisexual? I just don’t see how that makes sense. Things that happen to the ducklings and TPOW often reflect back to House. In DEC it can be said that both storylines do. You don’t have to think this means that H & W are destined to be intimate with each other to at least recognize that the idea that they might or even that one or the other of them is now at least thinking about it is being put in front of the audience. If not a line like “Oh My God, you’re sleeping with me.” isn’t put in there not even as a joke. Neither is Wilson’s resigned “Why not date you”…“we’re a couple.” speech. They sure seem to be asking us to consider the possibility of it even if they do not ultimately go there. I don’t believe TPTB of any successful show are going to map out the show based on what they think their strongest demographic will or will not like. That may be good commerce but it can lead to bad storytelling. I also would like to give more credit to 18 - 25 year old males and not assume that they would automatically be homophobic and reject a H/W storyline out of hand. Being as young as they are they may be more flexible then we think. A future that includes Cate is possible but we'll have to see certainly not in the immediate future. Cameron has been pulled so far off of the show that I get no feel for a future re. HAM and I like it that way. I do see Huddy flaring up and then cooling back down just as quickly. Comfort being sought and given, a reclaimimg of their brief past and one more try to see if it has any future. They will quickly come to see that a romance between the two of them is not where they belong together. Friends and collegues that is the bread and butter of who they are and that's quite wonderful. That may reflect on where I see W/A headed.

I appreciate that. No worries jonne we've got time. :wink: It's doubly significant when later it is revealed that 13 is a bisexual. She understands that what most people think of as two opposing ways of life can reside in the same person. Being attracted and in a love with a man at some point in her life and at another time having been attracted and in love with a woman doesn't mean that what she felt for the man wasn't real and true. For her they both are.

I must say there are several exceptionally well-reasoned and well-written posts! Even if one disagrees, the various cases are extremely well put. Wilson has previously spoken of having only two things he values His work and his stupid screwed up friendship with House. He now knows that he never really valued any of his wives because he said they were a mistake from I do. Here is something from the very start that he feels is right for him. “Wow.” Could it sour, sure relationships do all the time but they are off to a great start. A while back, I ignited a firestorm with my comment that the women in Wilson's life are "tangential". I never got a chance to go back and expand on my remarks, before they were a gazillion pages back, so I let it go. Your observation is close to what I meant. If his wives had been central in his life, and essential to his happiness, Wilson's marriages might have endured (not concurrently, of course :) ). They were not, as you say, valued. For him, they were on the perimeter, they touched his life of course, but as tangents, not within the alpha and omega of his concerns. As far as we know, OK? In DEC, the husband highly prizes his wife after only three previous meetings. That may not last, but Taub was clearly stung by that profound respect. I felt for him, I really did - he knows he has dishonored his marriage, and he's feeling it now. (Kutner completely missed the connection). Taub's wife has his love, but not his respect. And I immediately thought of Amber's "love or respect" scene - and of Wilson's marriages. Wilson may or may not deserve the lion's share of blame for the end of these relationships. But he feels guilty, because he knew these were bad decisions, and he and his wives got hurt, a thing that he could have prevented. He may have loved them in some way, but (again, AFAIK) the indications are that he did not honor them. He hasn't been with her very long and he hasn't yet come to the point of "Is this a mistake?", but Amber may strike the right balance of needy and independent, warm and steely, House-like/but not. And she won't passively accept being an afterthought in anyone's life. Wilson doesn't love her yet. (IMO, YMMV, AFAIK - whatever. Just keep the flying fur (TM bailey) out of my face.), If he eventually does, if she is not "tangential" to him, if she is equally central to his life and happiness as House, if he invests as much time and thought in her as he does House, it could work out very well for them, romantically. If not, and they are able to make the transition from lovers to friends, that would actually be even better. House himself has said Wilson needs a different kind of emotionally supportive friend than House is capable of being. For her part, Amber would need to accept House as part of their inner circle. She'd have to show the same wisdom that House has shown - that if Wilson became some kind of chew toy, caught in the middle of a dog fight, everyone loses. At the very least, she would lose Wilson, as lover and friend. But... A) House would be a very different show if anyone were actually content (wh-wh-what?!). And B) Holy hell, if she's added to the cast, TBTB had better hijack some writers from Lost, because they have demonstrated no ability whatsoever for integrating numerous characters and plot threads into the series in a dramatically logical way (when they even refer to those threads at all). It is absolutely not their strong suit, and I loathe the idea of enduring their clumsy efforts. And no IMO about that. In short, I find these Amber-centric scenarios interesting, except for the aforementioned A & B. :) As for offering an opinion on H/W HoYay, I think I'll skip that fur-filled thrill.

B) Holy hell, if she's added to the cast, TBTB had better hijack some writers from Lost, because they have demonstrated no ability whatsoever for integrating numerous characters and plot threads into the series in a dramatically logical way As long as they stay away from Darlton and JJ, I'm good ;)

wary wrote: A) House would be a very different show if anyone were actually content (wh-wh-what?!). And B) Holy hell, if she's added to the cast, TBTB had better hijack some writers from Lost, because they have demonstrated no ability whatsoever for integrating numerous characters and plot threads into the series in a dramatically logical way (when they even refer to those threads at all). It is absolutely not their strong suit, and I loathe the idea of enduring their clumsy efforts. And no IMO about that. Agreed on both. When they had the six original characters they already had problems balancing their screen time, with nine? There's no way it would work. But Amber could appear just once in a while. We never saw Julie, but we got hints about their life from time to time. The problem is that House must be involved one way or another, and if W/Amber are a happy, happy couple and House doesn't want to spoil their little bubble of happiness, what will be the point? To reduce even more Wilson's screen time? Sometimes I fear that, but I'm paranoid... Right? :?