Awww, Namaste, here I was feeling all smart because I actually knew some obscure House reference someone else didn't and you have to go and show me up with your encyclopedic knowledge! :glare: Last time I try to play with the big boys.... :kiss:

The Nobel prize for medicine is given out in Stockholm, however. And Maryisobel I only have that info offhand because I've got the transcripts site bookmarked on my laptop because I use it so often for fic purposes.

Huh -- the Nobel was actually mentioned twice? That's enough continuity to make me think it actually does mean something. His MO is that he doesn't want the praise and the applause. He wants to do his job. Fame holds no appeal for him. Hmm. In thinking about this, I answered my own Stockholm question. I think House does want the praise and the applause -- he wants the recognition.* He just wants it for the right reasons. And being a celebrity doc isn't the right reason. And the media and the public and even most of the patients and their families can't give him that, because they're not qualified to understand what he's really doing that (he thinks) is so great. Any old doctor can save a life, and the public at large aren't going to understand why the zebra diagnostics are so hard or what he risks by crossing conventional lines to help the patient. The Nobel committee, on the other hand, would be qualified to understand that. *Doesn't mean he's going to alter his course to win it or spends a lot of time thinking about it, just that he'd like to get it without altering his course. Do we have any canon evidence that he doesn't write anything up, or just no canon evidence that he does? For that matter, can anyone explain the authorship conventions in the clinical world? My experience is from the research side, so that ep completely confused me. My automatic assumption was that anything coming out of that lab, er, office, unless it was something as "casual" as a letter or electronic comment, would have either (a) House as first author and all the fellows' names on it or (b) one of the fellows as first author, House as senior author, and the other fellows' names in between. And there's no way Foreman could have had an article in print only three weeks after House signed off on it. And... okay, enough. If I listed all the ways that confused me it would go way off-topic, so I'll stick with the question about authorship conventions. :-)

Within the show, I suspect the writers used it as an indirect way of mentioning his brilliance. Most people know the Nobel Prize but it's my experience that few people understand the process and criteria. Using RL logic House is in no way a contender. The Nobel in Medicine is awarded based on scientific achievement, not clinical work, and House is not a scientist in the least. I've stubbornly maintained that House should be senior author on all papers by his fellows. It's simply the way it's done. However, I looked at Cameron's 'gift' in Human Error and Foreman is sole author on it. Perhaps the prop people didn't know about authorship conventions.

Bedawyn, I disagree. I don't think House is interested in affirmation by others. In Damned If You Do, he tells Cameron "I don’t need verification from you to know that I’m doing my job well. That’s your problem, not mine." I do think he likes being the smartest guy in the room, but he has no need for others to say that he is. I think he wants to be just famous enough that he gets to practice medicine his way and that he gets interesting referrals (because he's da man -- he always suspected.) He says in Human Error that he doesn't care (about the patient's feeling). His motives are pure. His motivation is the medicine itself. And, because he disapproves of motives which are baser (i.e. Sebastian loving the stroking his ego gets from the media), he discounts the good that such people accomplish. Perhaps the prop people didn't know about authorship conventions. They don't know how to spell Oncology or the proper name of Columbia's medical school and those are easy to check. So having the correct "bylines" on a paper for a medical journal could easily be beyond them.

They don't know how to spell Oncology or the proper name of Columbia's medical school and those are easy to check. So having the correct "bylines" on a paper for a medical journal could easily be beyond them. I don't think it's as simple as that. Making fake diplomas might very well be fraud. Inventing a fictitious paper for an equally fictitious journal is of no consequence because no one will ever read or cite it. ETA: And honestly, even I know that there's no such thing as a School of Oncolgy. That was sort of my point Taiga. Making an authentic-looking diploma could be construed as fraud. They get around that by making a diploma that is obviously fake - either by incorrect spelling or by using a nonexistent school.

Couldn't they have gotten permission from Columbia to use their name on Wilson's diploma? And honestly, even I know that there's no such thing as a School of Oncolgy. They don't know how to spell Oncology or the proper name of Columbia's medical school and those are easy to check. So having the correct "bylines" on a paper for a medical journal could easily be beyond them. Ha, true. Foreman's paper should have had House listed as secondary author at least. Do we have any canon evidence that he doesn't write anything up, or just no canon evidence that he does? The latter, though I also just can't see him writing anything up. The fact that he didn't bother to read Foreman and Cameron's papers would also suggest that he doesn't care about publication.

Or perhaps he really does care and he doesn't want them to know he did read them and lied to them that he didn't. Perhaps he wanted to know if they would include him on the byline if they thought he'd never know and therefore, they wouldn't have to. Perhaps it's part of his fun and his way of learning more about people near him that he creates a controlled situation and sits back to see how the lab rats, er, people react: he'd rather read their "unfiltered" behavior than hear their CYA-motivated stories. It's still true. Everybody lies...

Moving this discussion to Wilson's thread.

I suspect the writers used it as an indirect way of mentioning his brilliance. Very indirect, since the "Socratic" dialogue didn't even mention the Nobel itself! Maybe House and Wilson have had some previous, alcohol-fueled debate over why a clinical Nobel doesn't exist and are now pretending one does to prevent the debate from recurring. Poeia, it's certainly arguable, and I'd be interested to see what other canon-bits are out there on either side of the argument (though I don't have the time to research them this week). And I don't think he needs it, no. But then, I don't need my hair to be a different color than it is, either, and that doesn't stop me from wanting it. Not enough to douse myself in chemicals, mind, but enough to recurrently wish the world were different enough that I could make it so without dousing myself in chemicals. I think he wishes the world were such that he could have that recognition and respect without catering to other people's standards. Isn't that what the buraku story was about? However, I don't think he would admit wanting it to anyone other than Wilson (and the occasional random patient that he's never going to see again). I reserve the right to change my mind completely after seeing next week's episode, which I'm looking forward to tremendously.

I also just can't see him writing anything up. The fact that he didn't bother to read Foreman and Cameron's papers would also suggest that he doesn't care about publication. It does suggest that, but I can't quite make that mesh with the rest of what I know (or believe) about him. Not with the Stockholm references, not with his attempt to discredit migraine guy, not with the journal-reading we see him do, not with his contempt for other people's stupidity, not with the renown (or perhaps infamy) he has even among the limited medical community. Would anyone outside PPTH know who he is at all if he didn't publish at least enough to keep his name out there? At the very least, I think, he has to write letters criticising other people's work. And I want to believe that instead of merely criticising people's stupidity, he'd want to put his weirder cases out there so that others can benefit from his experience. However, I'm prepared to accept that that may be a rosy-glasses view. Boffle, he tells Wilson that he didn't read either paper and asks which was better. However, while he does claim he fell down with Cameron out of pure laziness, he also implies that Foreman did a run-around on him. Perhaps Foreman was able to get the paper published so (apparently) quickly and was listed as sole author because he never really ran it through House at all, and that whatever House signed off on "three weeks ago" was just some of the administrative paperwork attached to an article already in the journal's hands? It does strike me that, once the consequences are in front of him, House isn't happy about the way he handled those papers. And this was going on at the same time as Stacy, the breakthrough pain, Cuddy's placebo, and Wilson's divorce. Maybe we shouldn't assume House's behavior with these papers is typical of his attitude toward publication in general, when he's not distracted.

Boffle, he tells Wilson that he didn't read either paper and asks which was better. Yes, and he could have been lying to WIlson as well for any number of reasons: he wanted to see how Wilson would characterize the papers as compared to Cam and Foreman, for example. My thought is that he may lie to keep himself out of the equation, so if he's going to do that, he has to lie to everyone to keep his story straight. I'm not necessarily saying he absolutely did that, but I'd leave the door open for that interpretatioin since it does seem Houseian to me: the kind of House that people assume he is, jerky and irresponsible, when in fact, he often lets them think that then throws the changeup later on that, why, yes, he knew that all along, which keeps him one up on other folks because the less they know about where he really stands and how he does things, the more likely they are to think it through on their own, do the right thing and neither kiss his ass nor rely on his genius: maybe it's a teaching thing and a teaching thing not just for students but for anyone in his circle...

I'm using Occam's Razor here: House said he didn't read either paper, we were never given any reason to think he actually had, therefore I believe he didn't. Maybe he can't be bothered reading something if he knows he's not going to learn from it, which would be the case with papers written on his own case. From his vast knowledge he must read extensively, even if we never see him do it. My 800th post. I didn't realize I talked so much.

And honestly, even I know that there's no such thing as a School of Oncolgy. Sorry, moved to Wilson's thread.