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Taiga- 05-17-2008

It would be tragic if House and Amber ended up on the bus together by coincidence, because everyone else would have been coming up with nasty theories, but I just can't see how that would be. House I can imagine taking the bus, he's drunk and his keys are taken away, but Amber? Only if she had car trouble AND couldn't get ahold of Wilson to give her a ride, and even then you'd think she'd call a cab or AMA or something. Besides, I think part of the mystery is why House was getting hammered at five in the afternoon and it will probably tie into why he was there with Amber.

idonmatrix- 05-17-2008

Amber being House's daughter would happen on General Hospital. I think House is pretty soapy for a procedural show. In H's Head, the TPTB seem to have thrown in a couple of clues to lead me and others to Amber is House's daughter. Altered States (1980); 28 years ago; I wasn't even born then (eliminates 13); House inability to objectify Amber by imagining her naked; and her House-like personality (DEC), including her willingness to do anything for her patient (Games). Then there's the Who's Your Daddy subplot. House offers to talk with best friend Crandall's girlfriend and ends up sleeping with her. House and Crandall were both around 20 or 21, which was about 28 years ago. Amber and House are also similar physically - tall, thin, long faces, fair complexions, and blue-gray eyes. There's also the similarity between House's why I became a doctor story (Son of a Coma Guy) and Mirror patient's observation of Amber's professional relationships "when they don't like you then you have to be right" (Mirror Mirror). While I believe Amber as House's daughter is a possibility, I don't know how it ties in with: House being asked to risk his life to save Amber. If Amber were his daughter wouldn't he be willing to do that anyway? Or the promo shot of fully-clothed red suited Amber trying to seduce House. It seems more like a hallucination but still why is House even going there? However soapy it turns out to be, the TPTB definitely have me stumped on where they're headed in part 2 of the season finale.

Poeia- 05-17-2008

House's memory is missing 4 hours. That's not unusual around a traumatic event like being in a bus crash and fracturing your skull. So, in terms of House and Amber having an affair, I can only think of 3 possibilities: a) they've been sleeping together behind Wilson's back for a while. When, in the promo, House says he's not having an affair with Amber he's lying to protect Wilson. b) They've never liked each other but the day of the crash Amber and House bumped into each other a little after 5 at that bar. They both quickly got drunk and had sex in the bathroom. Then they got on the bus to go to their separate homes and the bus crashed. Because the entire affair was within the 4 missing hours, House doesn't remember any of it. c) They're not having an affair. I'll go with option C.

DrSpaceman- 05-17-2008

In H's Head, the TPTB seem to have thrown in a couple of clues to lead me and others to Amber is House's daughter. Only if you either misinterpret or deliberately go way out there, IMO. I could argue she's a secret alien based on just as flimsy clues, but that doesn't mean it's TPTB's fault. Altered States (1980); 28 years ago; There's no evidence Amber is 28. She was described as "late twenties" in her Jane Doe description, which was an estimate based on her looks. The actress is 32. Altered States was referenced because of the isolation tank, no need to stretch for some obscure explanation when the actual reference was blatant. I wasn't even born then (eliminates 13); Or none of the women House has met in his life, including 13, are candidates for a secret daughter no matter what their ages, because he doesn't have one. House inability to objectify Amber by imagining her naked; House actually HAD made a crack about picturing Amber naked, which he covered up to Wilson. Wilson also pointed out in the MRI scene that House doesn't objectify those he has actual feelings for - at that point House had been given the hypnotic suggestion to ignore Amber so she was blocked in his mind. and her House-like personality (DEC), including her willingness to do anything for her patient (Games). By that first criteria, Foreman also must be House's secret daughter. By the latter - Cameron is. Then there's the Who's Your Daddy subplot. Which was to illustrate House's personality. House offers to talk with best friend Crandall's girlfriend and ends up sleeping with her. No, House confirmed a certain sex act, one that doesn't cause pregnancy. House and Crandall were both around 20 or 21, which was about 28 years ago. He got a blowjob from Crandall's girlfriend 28 years ago - even if those did cause pregnancy, nothing indicates Amber is actually 28 anyway. If I were to consider that the writers wanted to drop a clue for a character they wouldn't introduce until two seasons later, that she was the product of an affair House had 28 years ago, then I would think they would have specified Amber's exact age, and also not have House specify the exact sex act he received from Crandall's girlfriend. Point being that if you're going to speculate based on clues, you have to do it based on at least some info given from the show. You can't assume something happened when all the character mentioned was something else (i.e. assuming House slept with Crandall's gf when he specified oral sex) or base speculation on things never expressly brought up on the show (Amber's age). There's also the similarity between House's why I became a doctor story (Son of a Coma Guy) and Mirror patient's observation of Amber's professional relationships "when they don't like you then you have to be right" (Mirror Mirror). Deciding to become a doctor and how you treat patients is not a hereditary trait. The way she treats patients or her personality are things a child might pick up by being raised and having personal interaction with a parent, it's highly unlikely someone would just happen to share the exact same personalities traits of a biological parent they'd never met and who had no hand in raising them. Also, people keep mentioning how Amber could go to a bar when she was working. Wilson said she was on call and assumed she didn't call back because she was working - you may not have to go into work while on call. But I don't see how being on call would prevent any doctor from going to a bar and having a drink - she's an adult woman and there's no reason why a glass of wine or something in the evening would impair her.

CB39DQ- 05-17-2008

House goes to a bar, we don't know why. He drinks a lot of beer and shots. He gets very drunk. A bus crashes outside the bar. House goes to help, he sees a little of the crash, but not very much, before he passes out, falls over and hits his head. He gets up and walks over to the strip club near the crash site. He orders a scotch. He blacks out. He comes to. He's in a strip club, he doesn't know why. He finds that he is without his phone and keys and his cane. He has concussion and amnesia. He feels that someone has been injured, and that he has seen a symptom. I think he has sustained a head injury that has affected the emotional centres of his brain, and now emotions are released whilst real memories are lost (probably due to alcohol) House goes outside, he sees a bus crash. Because House's brain is injured he can't think straight. His emotions are telling him that the answer to the dying person is locked in his head. Instead of looking for clues in the physical world, he looks for the answers inside his mind. But is mind is affected by the injury, and answers based on emotions and dreams come instead of the rational ones he would normally find. When he finally rests he dreams of a dark mysterious woman with an yellow necklace he cannot name, who is bound to him by ties of blood. This woman is mysterious, a keeper of the secrets of his mind, sexually attractive. She seems to share characteristics with dark haired women in his life (Stacy, Cuddy, 13). This woman is the Sphinx in his mind. Then he takes more drugs and puts people he knows and has feelings for on a bus with him, including 13 and Cameron (now blonde). 13 has on a yellow necklace (which House noticed earlier on). He hallucinates. The sphinx appears. She has on the red tie of blood and the yellow necklace. She asks who she is, House finds an answer for the dying person, the person his dreams and emotions tell him he should care for most. His mind has an image of a loving caring ideal, family love, this woman is blonde. This woman seems to be associated in his mind with Cameron and Cate, his blonde guitar and Amber. Amber is the answer he gives. His mind combines the physical characteristics of the bus with his memories and dreams to produce a vivid hallucination of the bus crash. Now there are coincidences. 13 is playing the part of Jane Doe No.2. Jane Doe No.2 is Amber, who was riding on the bus. Perhaps House did glimpse Amber on the bus before he passed out for the first time, we have no way to tell. House and Wilson go to get Amber. House is convinced by his unsuppressed emotions that he was on the bus with Amber and that he has feelings for her. He feels that the answer to a deadly symptom is locked inside his memory. There may be no such symptom. If he was himself House would look at Amber's physical symptoms only and try to diagnose her using his reason. But now House tries to diagnose her using the faulty reasoning of his mind in its altered state. He can find no memories, since there are none to find. Wilson is distraught. Also House is telling Wilson that he was with Amber and he doesn't know why; Wilson is jealous and suspicious as House has been untrustworthy in the past. Wilson's judgement is impaired, he is unable to see that House is acting out of character, and to take care of House as he usually would. Wilson asks House to undergo brain surgery to try and find the answer locked in House's mind, House agrees readily as his care for Wilson has been released by his brain injury. Wilson doesn't question House as he normally would as he doesn't care for House as he normally would. Chase sticks needles into Houses brain in order to find the answer to Amber's symptoms. No memories are released - there are none. But emotional centres are further stimulated. In the abscence of true memories House's mind combines images of real people in his life and Freudian dreams together with the logic of soap operas to come up with the answer. Amber is his daughter, House has been committing incest with her, and the blood ties signified by all the red in his dreams are involved. House's mind can't take this, and he seizes. He may be blinded as Oedipus was, if only temporarily. House's brain is damaged. Amber dies because the answer was not found in time. The answer may have been found if House were in his right mind, looking only at the physical symptoms. House's personality is altered, contradicting his previously held belief - that people don't change.

Namaste- 05-17-2008

I don't understand the need to twist ourselves into knots and suddenly throw away every piece of truth that we were given in "House's Head." To suddenly say that it's not true takes away the very power of that episode. It's Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is the correct one. House remembers being in a bus crash with Amber because he was in a bus crash with Amber. There's enough mystery and drama in trying to suss out why he and Amber were both in that bus without throwing away every truth we've already been given.

Chipmunk_love- 05-17-2008

I don't understand the need to twist ourselves into knots and suddenly throw away every piece of truth that we were given in "House's Head." To suddenly say that it's not true takes away the very power of that episode. So much word, Namaste. I don't doubt that there are things at work in the world of House that we're not aware of, and may come to light in W's H, but I urge everyone to not overthink it. You're just going to end up disappointed, because I can assure you that it is not as sensational as your mind may let you think.

travin1- 05-17-2008

I don't understand the need to twist ourselves into knots and suddenly throw away every piece of truth that we were given in "House's Head." To suddenly say that it's not true takes away the very power of that episode. So much word, Namaste. I don't doubt that there are things at work in the world of House that we're not aware of, and may come to light in W's H, but I urge everyone to not overthink it. You're just going to end up disappointed, because I can assure you that it is not as sensational as your mind may let you think. Yep! I agree with both Namaste and Chipper. And to add a bit...the promo monkeys also make us believe one thing and my guess is it'll turn out to be something far more simple than we're expecting.

CB39DQ- 05-17-2008

I don't understand the need to twist ourselves into knots and suddenly throw away every piece of truth that we were given in "House's Head." To suddenly say that it's not true takes away the very power of that episode. So much word, Namaste. I don't doubt that there are things at work in the world of House that we're not aware of, and may come to light in W's H, but I urge everyone to not overthink it. You're just going to end up disappointed, because I can assure you that it is not as sensational as your mind may let you think. Yep! I agree with both Namaste and Chipper. And to add a bit...the promo monkeys also make us believe one thing and my guess is it'll turn out to be something far more simple than we're expecting too.Absolutely, at the upmpteenth attempt at the simplest solution I'm still not there. But one thing to think about. When House sees the bus crash, look again. In the external view, where you can see whole bodies, can you see House? When House falls against the side of the bus with his face pressed against the glass does it seem a little awkward, like he might be somewhere else. Its not just falling over, the best I can come up with. But I don't think it's a bus crash either.

travin1- 05-17-2008

But how would he have seen the bus driver twitch or help the woman onto the bus when he shuffled, or know exactly where everyone was sitting?

CB39DQ- 05-17-2008

House goes to a bar, we don't know why. And now I going to say something almost universally unpopular, but which is the simplest explanation I can find. The reason House starts drinking at 5 is because he had a really bad day. 1. He found out Amber was pregnant 2. He's been having sex with Cameron 3. Chase has found out and hit House, perhaps causing a fall and as yet unseen injury Its a soap opera after all.

Boffle- 05-17-2008

Step away from the keyboard, CB. Put it down gently and nobody gets hurt. ;-) Kidding. This is getting to us, isn't it? We are a creative bunch, if nothing else.

Chipmunk_love- 05-17-2008

And now I going to say something almost universally unpopular, but which is the simplest explanation I can find. The reason House starts drinking at 5 is because he had a really bad day. 1. He found out Amber was pregnant 2. He's been having sex with Cameron 3. Chase has found out and hit House, perhaps causing a fall and as yet unseen injury Its a soap opera after all. 1. Possible. 2. Not really any evidence for that. 3. And then come back later on and hypnotize him and be perfectly civil to him? He wouldn't have done that if he knew why House would have been drinking. My advice is to go with the simplest explanation of all: go with what you see on-screen, and trust them that what they say is truth is, for now, truth. I would assume that the only reason House was drinking had to do with Wilson and/or Amber. To add the Hameron in at this point would be completely over the top. We only have 42 minutes, remember?

idonmatrix- 05-17-2008

Only if you either misinterpret or deliberately go way out there, IMO. I could argue she's a secret alien based on just as flimsy clues, but that doesn't mean it's TPTB's fault. Well unless you wrote the teleplay, the script, and directed the episode, you and I are engaged in a game of FAN speculation. There's no evidence Amber is 28. She was described as "late twenties" in her Jane Doe description, which was an estimate based on her looks. The actress is 32. Altered States was referenced because of the isolation tank, no need to stretch for some obscure explanation when the actual reference was blatant. Well let's see, she's over 25 " late twenties" and not yet 30. So that leaves 26, 27, 28, or 29. Jesse Spencer's character is older than he is. Many fans assume that RSL's character is in his 40s even though RSL is 39. So Anne Dudek being 32 is irrelevant in terms of the age of the character she plays. Or none of the women House has met in his life, including 13, are candidates for a secret daughter no matter what their ages, because he doesn't have one. What a great disguise David Shore!" :lol: sorry couldn't resist. This just tickled me to no end. House actually HAD made a crack about picturing Amber naked, which he covered up to Wilson. Wilson also pointed out in the MRI scene that House doesn't objectify those he has actual feelings for - at that point House had been given the hypnotic suggestion to ignore Amber so she was blocked in his mind. When Wilson said she better have her clothes on, House said unfortunately she does. That's when Wilson concluded (MRI scene) that House has feelings for her. So my argument still stands. and her House-like personality (DEC), including her willingness to do anything for her patient (Games). It just goes to show you that we all see the characters differently. Never saw Foreman as a mini-House no matter how many times they tried to pound it into my head. It just doesn't compute for me. And Cameron only does "anything" for her patients if she feels they're worthy and anything to them if they happen to incite her moral outrage. In terms of personality, Amber and Cameron are light years apart. I'm going to trust David Shore on this one. He described Amber as House's female proxy. Which was to illustrate House's personality. House has been called anti-social, a sociopath and a narcissist, layered with a think crust of meglomania. So what were they trying to illustrate about House's personality? No, House confirmed a certain sex act, one that doesn't cause pregnancy Here's the dialogue you and I are referring to: Wilson: You’re trying to end this conversation by grossing me out? I’m an oncologist. Half of my patients have their skin schleffing off. Why are you so worried about this guy? House: He was having a rough time with his girlfriend. He was in love, he was always in love. He wanted to marry her, but I thought she was flaky, sending mixed signals. Wilson: So, you gave him advice and she dumped him. House: No, I told him that I would talk to her. Wilson: And you blew it? House: Technically… I was doing him a favor, she was nuts! If I were to consider that the writers wanted to drop a clue for a character they wouldn't introduce until two seasons later, that she was the product of an affair House had 28 years ago, then I would think they would have specified Amber's exact age, and also not have House specify the exact sex act he received from Crandall's girlfriend. I take it these are your rules about how story arcs should happen on House. Have they told us exactly how old any of the House characters are with the exception of Chase? And even with Chase how can we be sure. People are speculating whether House and Cameron slept together. Should people not speculate about that since we've never seen them in a prone position together? People have speculated about Cuddy being 42, yet in DEC, House described Cuddy as "almost 40". In some procedurals like LOs, CSIs, and CM, they provide a lot of background information on the characters. House is different in that way. Much of what we learn about the characters is open to interpretation. Just because House specified an act in response to the way Wilson framed his question, doesn't mean it's the only act that was performed. Point being that if you're going to speculate based on clues, you have to do it based on at least some info given from the show. You can't assume something happened when all the character mentioned was something else (i.e. assuming House slept with Crandall's gf when he specified oral sex) The fact that you responded to my post in such detail indicates that I did base my speculation on clues from current and past shows. Are you telling me that my speculation is not welcomed because I interpret what I see and hear on House differently from you? or base speculation on things never expressly brought up on the show (Amber's age). . Wasn't it established by Wilson and House (House's Head) that Amber was the Jane Doe at Princeton General. The Jane Doe is described as in her late twenties. They didn't say late teens or late 30s or late 40s. They said late 20s. Again that would mean she's over 25 and under 30. There's also the similarity between House's why I became a doctor story (Son of a Coma Guy) and Mirror patient's observation of Amber's professional relationships "when they don't like you then you have to be right" (Mirror Mirror). The nature/nurture argument is still an ongoing debate. You may want to check out some twin (mono and dizygotic) studies. Research has shown that the propensity for some personality characteristics is genetically determined. Also, people keep mentioning how Amber could go to a bar when she was working. Wilson said she was on call and assumed she didn't call back because she was working - you may not have to go into work while on call. But I don't see how being on call would prevent any doctor from going to a bar and having a drink - she's an adult woman and there's no reason why a glass of wine or something in the evening would impair her. Hmm. That's an interesting rationale. I wonder how the hospital staff and patients would feel about a doctor coming in with alcohol on his/her breath. That would be a huge liability problem if something went wrong even if the doctor wasn't drunk. It called the appearance of impropriety. As it is, RL doctors pay huge insurance premiums. I don't think a $7 glass of wine would be worth it - that is in the real world. Of course it's sometimes difficult to compare what real people might do to fictional characters on a TV show, where the focus is on entertainment.

Taiga- 05-17-2008

House goes to a bar, we don't know why. And now I going to say something almost universally unpopular, but which is the simplest explanation I can find. The reason House starts drinking at 5 is because he had a really bad day. 1. He found out Amber was pregnant 2. He's been having sex with Cameron 3. Chase has found out and hit House, perhaps causing a fall and as yet unseen injury Its a soap opera after all. THAT'S the simplest explanation you can find? I've got one that's even simpler: what happened is what we saw on our TV screens. It doesn't get any simpler than that. As for the rampant theories about Amber being pregnant, does she strike you as the type of woman who can't manage birth control?