I'm not sure that Foreman would have been allowed access to the committee's findings. He was never really Chase's boss, only the temporary head of the department, and they would have been sealed under confidentiality. But if he could, I'm sure he would have read them given his attitude towards Chase. But would he have bothered to tell Cameron? He's always been very contemptuous of Chase and wanting to put him in a bad light. she had already judged Chase as the one being in the wrong as evidenced by the bitchy dismissing way she approached Chase in Cursed. I think she would have listened and felt sympathetic if Chase had talked to her. He shut her out when she first tried, he shut her out even more when she did her House impersonation. It's very Chase, he's secretive and holds things in, but he didn't provide any ground for her sympathy to grow.

Who wouldn't have shut Cameron out given the way she approached Chase in Cursed? You don't have to be secretive to not appreciate that kind of opening to a conversation. From her first words, she had already decided that Rowan wasn't as bad as Chase thought he was. She had already dismissed whatever problem Chase had with Rowan. There's no reason at all that Chase would have felt compelled to open up to her. I don't think you or I would open up to someone who had already judged us either! ;)

Razor, I really enjoy talking about Chase and Cameron with you, but I sort of feel like we're going around in circles when it comes to Cursed and LitS. We just see things differently, ya'know. I like Cameron, but I don't think she's defined by a caring heart either. I think there's more to her than that. She can be judgmental, nosey, and bitchy and I think those traits have come out in her interactions with Chase on more than one occassion. What I would really like to know is if Chase has opened up to Cameron about his mother. I'd like to know what circumstances led to that. I'd like to know if they've really talked about her PDH. It sort of seems like they have based on The Itch. I don't think Cameron ever realized Chase was damaged and he certainly was showing the opposite of damage when she told him, "It's Tuesday." So given the part of Cameron that does care about the damaged and want to fix things, how would she react to learning about his damage? How would she react to him keeping it from her for how ever long he did?

I think our perceptions are a bit different and obviously there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think Cameron is defined by her caring, anymore than Chase, Foreman, or any of the characters are defined by one thing. I agree with you that she can be all of those negative things that you mentioned, I just don't particularly see her in as much of a negative light as you do in the particular scenes we were talking about. By that, I mean that upthread I mentioned she handled the situation poorly, and went about the whole thing in a clumsy, hamfisted kind of way. Sometimes you can actually come off more cruel if you're ignorant about the situation and trying to help when you don't really have the tools at your disposal to do anything positive. I really hate fanfictions where Cameron is a meek, little caring teddy bear probably more than any other mischaracterization of her that I come across. I just don't want you to think that I'm trying to shout you down or something, I was enjoying the debate as well. I just think that she's either going to learn how to be ok with herself and other people or she's going to set herself up to be unhappy for the rest of her life. Chase is a smart, real, alive person who she's with right now. People are really complicated and when you start sharing yourself and your life with them, you learn all of their little issues and idiosyncrasies. This can be a really fun part of a relationship, but it can also be really scary if you aren't used to it or you don't have as much experience as the other person. If you add this to the fact that there are many really rough patches in Chase's life, I think Cameron might have a big problem just being with Chase, and not trying to put on her super heroine costume and fix his life for him. At the same time, we just don't really know how well they communicate but if the Itch is any indication, they have major issues. Cameron seemed completely blindsided when Chase brought the whole thing up, like she'd never thought of it before, like she was ok with the way things were. We don't even really have a clear picture of either characters' childhood. Even if they just had one episode that was full focused on Chase and Cameron, I think Jesse Spencer could give us so much good stuff and I think all of our questions could be answered. Although, I would honestly watch an episode that was just all about Chase because the more I watch the show, the more it seems like JS pretty much delivers in every scene.

Chase had many good moments in Poison. His fake CDC voice was my favorite. I don't understand why they didn't just get an intern to do it. His fake voice sounded intentionally bad. I'm never buying random jeans from some guy in a parking lot ever again. I wonder if C/C ever talk about religion. I wonder if Chase wants a church wedding. Chase is Catholic but he has premarital sex, I wonder where he stands on things like abortion and condoms. I understand that he is lapsed, but I wonder how lapsed. I also wonder if he has any family in Australia that he is close to, like aunts or uncles. I guess he could also have family in the Czech Republic, because wasn't that where Rowan was originally from? Also, that begs the question, when did Rowan leave and why Australia? I'm going to assume that Rowan was Catholic and not Jewish, which would mean that he probably escaped around 1948 or sometime later. Although, technically, Rowan could be Jewish and Chase's mom could be Catholic. If this was the case, he could have left when the Nazis occupied the area in the '30s but he would have had to have been really young. Of course, he could have originally supported the Communist regime and then escaped later, if he had a change of heart or something. Is there a Chase family castle in Bohemia or was Rowan the first wealthy Chase? Technically, he could have studied medicine in Communist Czecholslovakia, like Daniel Day Lewis did, in the Unbearable Lightness of Being. If Rowan and his Wife were hardscrabble immigrants that made good, that significantly changes who Chase is, as a person. That type of upbringing would be significantly different than the WASPY, country club image he attempts to portray, or at least he did. Then, we have Cameron, who doesn't talk about her family AT ALL! Her mother has/had earrings and she has/had a brother. That gives me nothing to work with. If I had to guess, I would say that she grew up middle class/working class. I've heard people say that she seems too polished but I don't see that. I'm thinking small town but not a Norman Rockwell kind of small town. Some place like Steubinville or some other factory town in the rust belt.

Chase is Catholic but he has premarital sex, I wonder where he stands on things like abortion and condoms. I understand that he is lapsed, but I wonder how lapsed. If he's anything like many Catholics in the Western world, he doesn't particularly care about what the Vatican has to say about that, either. Chase can be very pragmatic, and I would suspect part of what keeps him in a rift with the church is the application of absolute rules to a world with many shades of gray. If he got married, he might want a church wedding in theory, but he might not be so keen on the counseling that precedes it. I don't get the sensation from Chase that it has such a strong impact on his everyday life - useful in a crisis, yes, but I don't think he's saying his Hail Marys on a regular basis anymore. Cameron has really only said that she doesn't believe in the active God that Catholicism endorses - so it would be interesting to get more of her view. We don't actually know if Chase's mother was Czech as well. House said Rowan had about "30 years of Aussie" in his accent, suggesting that he arrived there in the mid 70s - and not that long before Chase would have been born. (Whether or not that was his first stop, we don't know.) So she could have been his wife, and emigrated with him, or could have been someone that he met there. For that matter, we don't know if Mrs. Chase was wealthy before marrying Rowan. Either way the date suggests he was already trained as a doctor when he got to Australia - if Rowan was the same age as Patrick Bauchau, that would have made him nearly 40 at the time.

Chase was okay with euthanasia in Informed Consent so he's pretty liberal in his Catholicism. I wonder how he feels about divorce though. If marriage is a 'once and never again' kind of thing, he'll be thinking a lot before he asks Cameron to marry him. I'd assumed that Rowan left Czechoslovakia in 1968 when many Czechs had a chance to leave during the spring that the walls got holes in them. There is nothing that Chase does that's particularly Czech, which he would if his mother were also Czech (some mention of a Czech food or custom) so she would more likely be Australian. Also, there are references to Chase coming from a monied background and Rowan wouldn't have had much time to accumulate that kind of wealth by Chase's childhood, especially as a doctor. Doctors earn good money even in Australia but there aren't that many who ski in Gstaad as a matter of course. Fame doesn't always bring big bucks with it. That's my fanwanking of the Chase background.

He doesn't really act like new money. He doesn't really dress flashy, but he could just be good at faking it. It really is hard to get a handle on him, he could have just read an article about Gstaad and then lied to that nurse in an attempt to get laid. I wouldn't put that past season 1 Chase. Cameron's lines in House vs God implied that she was more Agnostic than Atheist. It wouldn't surprise me if she grew up Church of Christ. If she was from a smaller town in the Mid West, especially, closer east, then that would make sense. Some of her behavior implies that she is familiar with Evangelicals. It is also entirely possible that she was some other denomination of Protestant. Growing up in an Evangelical church would,imho, make it more difficult for her to completely embrace Atheism than if she grew up in a traditional Methodist Church where it was only on Sunday and people sat down and said 'Amen'. I don't know if any of you have read 'Wasp, Where is Thy Sting?' by Florence King, but it is a pretty interestng book about the cultural differences bettween the various Protestant Sects in America. I don't really know exactly how that would affect their relationship, but I think it would have more of a bearing on it if Cameron's family is still around. I really hope that Chase really presses to meet Cameron's family at some point. That could cause some friction, some people really want to meet the parents and take not being introduced as a slight, while others really don't think that it is a big deal. I mean, it doesn't have to happen on screen, maybe fanfic. :D

He doesn't really act like new money. True. His mother could be old money. Or his father could come from old money pre-Communist era. Gstaad is where the well-off Europeans go to ski. From their scenes, I get the impression that for Chase, what he holds on to and derives comfort from are the rituals of the Church, as if he could just reach out and find his faith again in them if he needs it. Cameron strikes me as someone who accepts the rituals but doesn't need them; she's got her own concept of God and it works for her. If Cameron has a large and loving family, Chase may be in the position of wanting to be part of them even if his relationship with Cameron ends. He's lost both his parents and it doesn't sound like there is anyone else in his family that he is close to.

Since we're talking fanwank, I imagine Chase's mother coming from old money and perhaps his inheritance from her is what was allowing him to live a ski-tripping kind of lifestyle. I find it hard to believe his daddy would support him and give him money if he was planning to cut him out of the will anyway. Rowan, of course, would have made plenty of money as a doctor and from his publications so he had money too. I imagine Cameron coming from upper-middle class and I picture her as a middle child.

You don't make a lot of money from publications unless your book gets used as an intro text and lots of people have to buy it. You don't get paid for journal articles and the payoff for a regular scholarly book is quite low. My husband wrote a research methods text and given how long it took him to write it vs how much he made, he figures he was working for about 15 cents an hour. I don't think Australian doctors make as much as US ones. Australia has publicly-funded medicine and bulk billing. I know Ontario caps doctors fees, maybe Australia does too. Now the lecture circuit, on the other hand.... if he's a world famous doctor, I can see money from the dinner speeches at drug company sponsored conferences. But there had to be money from somewhere if Chase went to a good school and his mother didn't appear to be earning any. I go along with your fanwank about his mother coming from old money.

I just don't really see Cameron coming from an upper-middle class family, because I don't think she would have come off so insecure that far into her career if she had money to fall back on. Also, she doesn't really seem to have that good of a grasp of fashion. I think that Cameron seems like Foreman, in that they both come off a little stilted, in their demeanor, and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that they have well developed professional facades. Chase does too, but the thing about Chase is, he seems comfortable in his own skin even if he might not be comfortable in every situation. I just, from experience, know that I'm always worried about coming off hick-like when I'm around Ivy League people, or people who are obviously from larger metropolitain areas. I try to make sure that I don't drawl too much or use double negatives. I've heard myself talk on tape and it sounds unnatural, robotic, like if I'm definately trying to not sound like I have a hick accent. Referencing how Cameron talks when she's in professional, talk to patient mode, vs like, that scene in Control, I kind of get a Clarice Starling vibe. I do think at one point, Chase is going to want to meet her family and I wonder if she might be embarassed because it is Chase and he is kind of low key and private. I always thought the whole make room for me in your life thing in The Itch was kind of interesting because that implies that Chase kind of wants to see everything that is behind the mask and Cameron might be reluctant to do that, because she might think there is some scary stuff behind there.

Any other Cham shippers around? There's a lot of talk about their engagement in the Saviors episode thread, but it's sad that it hasn't made it to their shipper thread! It's canon that they're engaged! Yay! :party: As much as I think it's cool to have them engaged, I just hope that the writers will find ways to focus on them that don't revolve around their love lives. Any non-spoilery thoughts on who they might pick for Best Man and Maid of Honor?