5.13 - Big Baby

In some work settings it is traditional to use last names and allow themselves to use first names when the interaction is more personal than professional. I thought Wilson calling Cuddy "Lisa" was sending a signal that this was him being a friend to her at that moment, not a colleague. It seemed more out of left field for Cameron to call her Lisa, because they're not actually friends, but at the time, House was tormenting Cuddy with the "you hate the baby" stuff and Cam was trying to reach out to her in comfort/support. I don't think it's weird for Chase to call Cameron "Cameron" when he's talking *about* her to people who know her that way. People do tend to talk about their SO's to third parties using the name the third party knows him/her by. Amber did it, too; she always referred to Wilson as Wilson when talking to House about him. And parents refer to their spouses as Mommy/Daddy when talking to their kids. RL example: My SO -- I'll call him Robert Macintosh -- is Bob to most people. He was Bobby as a kid, and a few childhood friends still call him that. In high school, he became known as Mac, and people who know him from HS/military/young adulthood call him that. I'm not a childhood friend, but I call him Bobby; it's kind of "our thing." Our friend Brad is one of those who calls him Mac. When I'm talking to Brad, I'll refer to my SO as "Mac," and Brad will refer to him as "Bobby." (Foreman calling 13 "Remy" in the convo with House was a notable exception and one that spoke volumes about where his head was at.)

I inferred Cameron addressing her as Lisa as having followed an earlier "call me Lisa" sort of conversation, commensurate with the higher-level job she was asking Cameron to perform. Cameron was also trying to be supportive about something very personal, so it made sense to reach out that way. I didn't find Chase calling Cameron by her last name in the third person particularly weird because from what we have seen, that's the workplace standard at PPTH (even if it would probably be bizarre in RL). The team wouldn't call her Allison, so he, despite having a more intimate relationship with her, wouldn't call her Allison in front of the team. (It seems a bit weirder, actually, in this episode, when he calls her Cameron in front of Foreman.) (Or, you know, what OldHamster said. :lol:) Damn you, LE, you keep making me feel for Cuddy. Although, the part where she yelled at the baby was dumb. As was her shoving the baby in House's face. (Desperate much? Like he cares.) It seemed pretty obvious when he came to invade her office and nag her about returning the baby that indeed, he did care when Wilson filled him in, if only about being right. He suggested something was wrong, she was showing him that things were improving. I mean, this is House, he's not going to buy it without evidence.

I loved it when Foreman said "Remy" and House said "Who?" Other than House and Wilson, none of them are really friends in the sense that they hang out after work together or socialize in non-work things. We saw the oirignal ducklings at a restaurant in Sports Medicine and then again two season later in Half-wit. They hang out a lot together in fanfic but not on the show. When Kutner and Cole went to the magic show, that was huge. They spend so much time calling each other by last names that when they don't, it seems to be signifying something. Even Wilson calls Cuddy "Cuddy" when he referring to her in conversations with House so to hear him say "Lisa" made it a unusual situation. I think we refer to Amber as "Amber' because that's what Wilson called her. Or maybe because Volakis is too hard to remember.

I think we refer to Amber as "Amber' because that's what Wilson called her. Or maybe because Volakis is too hard to remember. This is kind of getting off track, but... Amber was Amber before Wilson. During the Survivor arc, if she wasn't being called some variation of "Cutthroat Bitch," she was Amber. And probably because Volakis doesn't flow as well. None of our leads seem to have last names with more than two syllables.

In some work settings it is traditional to use last names and allow themselves to use first names when the interaction is more personal than professional. I thought Wilson calling Cuddy "Lisa" was sending a signal that this was him being a friend to her at that moment, not a colleague. It seemed more out of left field for Cameron to call her Lisa, because they're not actually friends, but at the time, House was tormenting Cuddy with the "you hate the baby" stuff and Cam was trying to reach out to her in comfort/support. I don't think it's weird for Chase to call Cameron "Cameron" when he's talking *about* her to people who know her that way. People do tend to talk about their SO's to third parties using the name the third party knows him/her by. Amber did it, too; she always referred to Wilson as Wilson when talking to House about him. And parents refer to their spouses as Mommy/Daddy when talking to their kids. RL example: My SO -- I'll call him Robert Macintosh -- is Bob to most people. He was Bobby as a kid, and a few childhood friends still call him that. In high school, he became known as Mac, and people who know him from HS/military/young adulthood call him that. I'm not a childhood friend, but I call him Bobby; it's kind of "our thing." Our friend Brad is one of those who calls him Mac. When I'm talking to Brad, I'll refer to my SO as "Mac," and Brad will refer to him as "Bobby." (Foreman calling 13 "Remy" in the convo with House was a notable exception and one that spoke volumes about where his head was at.) I see what you're saying, but he didn't use a nickname or anything, he used her last name. To call his girlfriend of fairly longstanding by her last name in any setting is weird IMO. Wilson called Amber "Amber." House called Stacy "Stacy." It really is almost as if they don't trust us to remember the first names because they are used so seldom. At one point in this episode, Foreman was talking to Chase and actually called 13 "13." Now that sounded really strange.

The use of first names vs. last names has always been confusing for me. House goes for last names, with everybody except Stacy and Mark. Stacy called everybody by first names. Everyone else has a back and forth. I am annoyed that it wasn't "Volakis" for Amber. To use last names for everyone else and first name for her, during the "Survivor" arc, shows a lack of respect, in my opinion. Someone mentioned number of syllables: Volakis has the same number as Cut-throat Bitch. I didn't find Chase calling Cameron "Cameron" strange at all. He knew her as "Cameron" for several years before they started dating, and he was speaking about her in a work setting.

I am annoyed that it wasn't "Volakis" for Amber. To use last names for everyone else and first name for her, during the "Survivor" arc, shows a lack of respect, in my opinion. Someone mentioned number of syllables: Volakis has the same number as Cut-throat Bitch. Oh, you're right about the syllables. Then again, saying "Cutthroat Bitch" just sounds more succinct than saying "Volakis." However, it's not like the writers didn't have a choice when naming her. As for Chase and Cameron, there is no reason not to refer to each other as Chase and Cameron, especially when they're at work. If they want to call each other by their last names because that's what they're comfortable with, it's kind of their choice. Also, one has to take into consideration that at any given point in time, this could be someone's first time watching the show. In an episode in which Chase and Cameron are not in the same room together, Chase musing about "Allison" could be confusing.

Man, I'm still confused :lol: It's just weird, because everyone pretty pointedly used last names 99% of the time, and suddenly everyone's switching over for no apparent reason... I have a sudden urge for fanwank.

I didn't see anything that weird on the use of "Lisa." It was a highly emotional and highly personal moment for Cuddy and Cameron in particular wanted to make it clear that she was speaking to Cuddy on a non-professional level (since the conversation was taking place in Cuddy's office, in the midst of what had been a professional issue involving House.) Cameron was changing gears, and wanted to make a separation between work "Cuddy" and "Lisa" who was having some personal problems. Same with Foreman's use of "Remy." "Thirteen" is the person he works with. When he's talking to her in a non-work situation -- or speaking about her in a personal context v. professional context -- I can understand making that distinction. Of course it could also have to deal with the fact that Thirteen is facing her issues, coming to terms with her life as it is. Thirteen was a name she easily adopted because it hid her true self (not literally her true self, since House and others had her name, but the person who wasn't tested for the Huntington's gene, then who was failing to deal with the positive results).

I didn't find Chase calling Cameron "Cameron" strange at all. He knew her as "Cameron" for several years before they started dating, and he was speaking about her in a work setting. I still can't imagine Chase and Cameron calling each other "Allison" and "Robert." I wonder when and how (if?) they crossed that line with each other anyway. It's funny that we've heard Cameron calling Cuddy "Lisa" and have never heard her address her boyfriend of two years by his name, other than in Season 1 when she was being passive aggressive.

I hated it when House kept calling Amber "cut throat bitch". And when he wrote "Bitch" on the whiteboard assigning points. :hammer: It was enormously disrespectful to a junior. (Not to mention that IMO the real bitch was Thirteen, not Amber.) I can't see Cameron and Chase calling each other "Allison" or "Robert" either. (I wonder if Chase would prefer Rob or Bobby to Robert since his father called him Robert.) Maybe they still use last names because that's how they got to know each other and are comfortable with them. For Cuddy, it's different because Cameron would have addressed her as "Dr. Cuddy" because of the status difference. So she can't just say "Cuddy" now. It's either "Lisa" or "Dr. Cuddy" and "Dr. Cuddy" seems much too formal given their current relationship. But what really strikes me as weird is that the team still calls Thirteen "Thirteen". They've know her name for over a year now and she's not the kind of person you put a pet name on, which would be the other reason for still using Thirteen.

she's not the kind of person you put a pet name on, which would be the other reason for still using Thirteen. Whenever you get a group of people working extremely closely together in high pressure situations, nicknames are common. At this point, Thirteen is a nickname and she's astute enough not to make a fuss. There's a lot worse nicknames to be had, as Amber found out.

I hated it when House kept calling Amber "cut throat bitch". And when he wrote "Bitch" on the whiteboard assigning points. It was enormously disrespectful to a junior. He's called other people far worse things. What I loved about the name Cut Throat Bitch is that Amber absolutely owned that. She didn't let House phase her, and she didn't back down to anyone. She wore that name like a badge of honor, in part because I think she realized that it's far worse to have House ignore you. (Amber pointed out that as much to Thirteen in the scene in the cemetery when she accused Thirteen of intentionally trying to mask her background just to keep House intrigued.)

She did refer a pain patient to him because she thought that he needed to address his own pain issues before they got too bad but the crush was in season one. It's season five now and the canvas is completely different. Each of the House’s employees relate to him in a different way but I see Cam as having a relationship with House that has an additional layer to it that none of the others do because she had a crush on him and the writers hinted at the possibility of a romance blossoming between them. Yes, the crush became less intense as time wore on because she was forced to gradually accept the fact that House was unwilling to take their relationship in that direction. Yet, they have continued to write her in a way that leaves us guessing as to whether she still has remnants of the crush in part because it was a key element of the arc for her character’s growth and in part because they know there is a sizable contingent of House/Cam shippers and they want to give them a reason to continue watching. There are several examples of this - challenging Chase to have sex in the office place where there was a risk of being caught in the act by House, kissing him in order to draw his blood, loudly and rather unnecessarily exclaiming that she was glad that she never slept with House when he supposedly tested positive for an STD thereby implying that they had been close to having sex at some point, neither confirming nor denying it when Chase asked her if she’d slept with House, sending his mom a condolence card on his behalf when his father died without being asked to, bringing a case to him that she thinks will help him get a perspective on his pain and doing his department budget long after she has ceased to be a part of it. We could go on arguing about how much to read into each one of these things but I think its fair to say that at the very least she cares for him. I think that it was for the first time in this episode they showed us that the caring doesn’t seem to be romantic. Chase did come up with the right answer in Finding Judas but he did so because Cameron wouldn't give up trying to find a different diagnosis I disagree about the point you made about Chase’s diagnosis in Finding Judas and I think extra_cat has done a better job of explaining why than I could have. Even if Cam did help Chase get to his diagnosis, the point remains that he was the one who had the confidence and the conviction to stick by it and stand up to House when House was clearly wrong thus demonstrating that he can challenge House when it comes to the final diagnosis. I thought House gave Cameron a run for her money in terms of acting out and trying to manipulate her, just as he did Foreman in season 2. I do think he respects Cam but we’ll have to agree to disagree about whether he was as hard on her as he could have been. No matter how hard we think he was (or wasn't), the point is that he predicted how things would go between them – that they would struggle for power and that Cam would “put out” or cede to him in the end. And that, in fact, is exactly what happened and Cam realized it and acknowledged it to Cuddy. She realized she didn't fail this time but she also realized that there would come a point when she would. I think Cuddy is equally susceptible to "believing" in House but she can say no, not because she's brilliant, but because she isn't as close to the medicine and can be more dispassionate plus at heart she's an administrator and thinks about what a wrong decision will cost the hospital and more importantly, what it will mean for House's department (if he loses his job, he loses his lifeline and she wouldn't want that to happen because she feels guilty about her role in his treatment). Putting a student of House's in the position of stopping him when he's doing his "thing" was bound to fail, no matter who the student was. Good point. I guess I would argue that of the three Cottages, Chase seems to be the least likely to fail because he's the one most likely to say no to House on the rare occasions that its required. I am only speculating, of course.

What I loved about the name Cut Throat Bitch is that Amber absolutely owned that. She didn't let House phase her, and she didn't back down to anyone. She wore that name like a badge of honor, in part because I think she realized that it's far worse to have House ignore you. (Amber pointed out that as much to Thirteen in the scene in the cemetery when she accused Thirteen of intentionally trying to mask her background just to keep House intrigued.) Yes, that was one of the awesome things about her, that she turned a negative into a positive. She could manipulate when she needed to (the car washing) but she could also put aside her own self-interest for the sake of another (the bed-buying) and then not gloat when she was provide right in the end. A complex character played by a good actress. I miss them both. Sadly, I think that tptb really do believe that making Thirteen mysterious keeps not only House but the audience intrigued. in part because they know there is a sizable contingent of House/Cam shippers and they want to give them a reason to continue watching I agree that they may be doing it deliberately to keep House/Cameron shippers watching with no intention of ever going there again. If so, they have no clue what makes House/Cameron shippers tick and it's going to backfire badly on them if that's what they're thinking. Josh/Donna shippers still haven't forgiven John Wells for promising that they would be happy with the J/D developments and then not carrying through. I guess I would argue that of the three Cottages, Chase seems to be the least likely to fail because he's the one most likely to say no to House on the rare occasions that its required. I think Chase tends to go on one side or the other and stick with it. In the early seasons, he always supported House because he believe in his medical abilities and he didn't want to piss him off (as Chase himself said). For example, in Detox (co-written by Kaplow as was this episode), Chase completely supported what House was doing, Foreman as usual opposed it, and Cameron spent much of the episode deciding whether she was going to support House (e.g. by lying to the patient for him) or to go with her own gut. It's an interesting comparison to BB because in Detox she starts by supporting him (as House said "big mistake"), then refuses to lie for him and in the end goes with her gut and supports him, as she does here. In season 4, Chase hardened his backbone to House and rarely supported him. He's had an 'all or nothing" position wrt supporting House. The season he has both supported and not supported House but we've never never seen the thought process behind deciding which to go with or why. Even if Cam did help Chase get to his diagnosis, the point remains that he was the one who had the confidence and the conviction to stick by it and stand up to House when House was clearly wrong thus demonstrating that he can challenge House when it comes to the final diagnosis. But we've seen Cameron do that even more than Chase does. Even in season one she's stood up to House numerous times on ethical grounds even when she was afraid of losing her job to do so, in Informed Consent she refused to continue because it would be breaking their deal with Ezra, in AYA she asked for permission to go back to look for environmental causes and House mocked her with "Waste your time? I wouldn't recognise you if you didn't." (She was right about the causes but wrong that it was in shampoo and cleaning supplies.) As I said on the Finding Judas thread, being able to get the right diagnosis duplicates what House and his team do. What the job of overseeing House requires is not being good at diagnosing but instead not being willing to accept House's first diagnosis but to keep looking until the one which fits right comes up, and to stand up to House and stop him from doing things that are "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal". Cameron has a better record of doing that than Chase does. Chase seems to be the least likely to fail because he's the one most likely to say no to House on the rare occasions that its required. We remember when Chase said no to House in Finding Judas because it was so dramatic, and that he said no in season four almost all the time but Cameron's been better at it for longer. Foreman, on the other hand, started out saying no almost all the time for the sake of proving himself better than House and then learned to say yes after 4 years.

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