I agree that they may be doing it deliberately to keep House/Cameron shippers watching with no intention of ever going there again. If so, they have no clue what makes House/Cameron shippers tick and it's going to backfire badly on them if that's what they're thinking. Josh/Donna shippers still haven't forgiven John Wells for promising that they would be happy with the J/D developments and then not carrying through. David Shore hasn't given any interviews stating that any romantic pairing is the real deal, and that includes House and Cuddy, never mind House and Cameron. So all of us have to wait and see what happens, including House and Cameron shippers. There are no promises here.

First, it seemed very odd that they call each other by their last names in an American drama. (At work place, it's natural to use last names in Japan, although we usually put prefix, such as Dr. or Mr./Ms.) So I concluded that the writers were so much in love with the name "House"and decided to let all the other characters call each other by the last names. :D We also change how to call each other so often, according to the circumstances (work place, private, if there's third person listening, completely private... :wink: ), that their switching from the last names to the first names seems very natural to me. Bu the way, in Japanese dubbing, the ducklings call House "House sensei (Dr. House)", and it's funny in a way, that they put the prefix of respect, even when they are talking very rude. :D

Well, about the last name thing; when talking about House, I think it's got something to do with his Holmesian background. Holmes always called Watson by his last name. And don't forget it's House :3 I think he uses someone's first names only if this person really means something to him, like Stacy, Wilson-- well, he called him by his first name a handful of times, some patients ("Frozen" anyone?). It's part of his personality. (God knows how many mistakes I've made in this post... ^^" )

From the Media thread: It's interesting that they focused so much on Wilson's words of wisdom, when really it was House who shocked her enough to think realistically about her options as a foster parent. House only explored the aspects of her still being able to give up on keeping the baby. Wilson deserves the credit for being the only one trying to make her see every way possible that the rough patches are to be expected, accepted and gone thru to get to the good stuff. Wilson said what I think we all would have said in such a situation, and he should be given credit for not giving up on Cuddy and for being a shoulder upon which she could cry. But it was House who voiced the one thought that Cuddy had been too scared to voice, too guilty to voice: that she could give up the baby. Once that thought was out in the open, and once Cuddy knew that it was okay to consider such a possibility, she could begin to think realistically about this child and her options and what she really wanted for Rachel. Only then could she take the steps led to that breakthrough she had with Rachel later on in the episode. After all, Wilson gave reason after reason for her to keep the baby, and none of it seemed to get through. House said one thing, and she began to think clearly. She needed to know that it was okay to think about giving the baby back. Or, as Boffle so astutely put it, House and Wilson went "good cop/bad cop" on her.

I think the point of Cameron's speech giving her reasons why she wasn't a good person to replace Cuddy, that House had taught her how to do medicine and she respected his decisions, he was inside her head and therefore medically she wouldn't say no because he was her teacher and her mentor. Chase or Foreman should have said the same unless they were still working out their own issues with House. (And I think they both still have their own issues with House e.g. Chase's complete refusal to help in LtD tells me that he still hasn't found a good balance with House even yet). The problem was in putting one of House's former fellows in charge of him, not in that it was Cameron. Cameron opposed House as far back as Detox in season 1 when he told her to lie to the patient and she refused to. She was willing to risk her job to report the father's abuse in Skin Deep, she convinced House she was right to do a TB test in TB or Not TB (and he later used her arguments himself to convince Sebastian Charles), she out-smarted him in Deception.... there have been lots of times when she stood up to House long before Chase did in FJ. I think the point of Informed Consent was not that Cameron had a confused view of euthanasia but that euthanasia itself is a very difficult ethical area. We saw Cameron grappling with it and we saw in the end how she made up her own mind and did what she thought was ethically right, in spite of the cost to her, not what anyone else thought she should do. That she came to her own decision indicates her maturity and her ability to make up her own mind for herself. (And again, House broke a bunch of medical ethics admonitions so Cameron walking off when he was breaking yet another showed how she wasn't weak. Ezra refused consent for anything after the initial 24 hours was up; House was abusing him to force more tests on Ezra just for his own personal gratification in solving the puzzle. At no point did she demonstrate the ability to successfully stand up to him by making him change his mind about doing something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal". She did in Sleeping Dogs Lie, she pointed out to him that Max had the right to her own team of doctors who were going to put her welfare as their first priority rather than Hannah's doctors who put Hannah first. This is what the AMA says to do and what House and Cuddy should have done in the first place. She stood up to him in Euphoria to adhere to Foreman's wishes. She refused to let him do the brain test until he had proved that it was necessary with the MRIs, which ended up proving that House was wrong about the MS so in this episode she did prevent him from doing something unnecessary, dangerous and potentially lethal. In the end, the choice was whether to trust House's medical judgement or not. Of course Cameron did, as Chase has always done except for FJ when he figured out the right diagnosis.

I feel like we’re in a tennis match, Ariadne. :lol: Ok, last post from me on this topic. None of the examples you’ve given show that Cam stood up to House by making him change his mind about doing something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal". In some of them her adherence to what she believed was the right thing to do actually hurt the process but I won’t go into that here. Cameron opposed House as far back as Detox in season 1 when he told her to lie to the patient and she refused to. She was willing to risk her job to report the father's abuse in Skin Deep, she convinced House she was right to do a TB test in TB or Not TB (and he later used her arguments himself to convince Sebastian Charles), she out-smarted him in Deception.... there have been lots of times when she stood up to House long before Chase did in FJ. Cam’s refusal to lie to the PoTW’s father in Detox didn’t change House’s original plan for treating him in any way. She was instrumental in the reporting of the father’s abuse in Skin Deep but the social worker left when both the father and the daughter denied it and House carried on with the DDX. In TB or Not TB, she tested Sebastian for TB but House went on with the DDX regardless of the positive test and sure enough it turned out to be something else. She very cleverly showed that the PoTW had Munchhausen’s in Deception but House rightly ignored her diagnosis since it turned out that Anica was actually suffering from a disease. In short, she didn’t stop House from doing anything "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal" in any of these instances. I think the point of Informed Consent was not that Cameron had a confused view of euthanasia but that euthanasia itself is a very difficult ethical area. We saw Cameron grappling with it and we saw in the end how she made up her own mind and did what she thought was ethically right, in spite of the cost to her, not what anyone else thought she should do. That she came to her own decision indicates her maturity and her ability to make up her own mind for herself. (And again, House broke a bunch of medical ethics admonitions so Cameron walking off when he was breaking yet another showed how she wasn't weak. Ezra refused consent for anything after the initial 24 hours was up; House was abusing him to force more tests on Ezra just for his own personal gratification in solving the puzzle. Yes, the larger point was that euthanasia is a difficult ethical area but it was Cam in particular who was having difficulties with it. And I don’t see how anything you’ve said here contradicts the point I made earlier which is that in the end none of her words or actions had any effect on what House did or didn’t do in Ezra's case. She did in Sleeping Dogs Lie, she pointed out to him that Max had the right to her own team of doctors who were going to put her welfare as their first priority rather than Hannah's doctors who put Hannah first. This is what the AMA says to do and what House and Cuddy should have done in the first place. She stood up to him in Euphoria to adhere to Foreman's wishes. She refused to let him do the brain test until he had proved that it was necessary with the MRIs, which ended up proving that House was wrong about the MS so in this episode she did prevent him from doing something unnecessary, dangerous and potentially lethal. In SDL nothing Cam did or said had any effect on what House did. Max didn’t get her own team of doctors and ended up giving half her liver to Hannah. In Euphoria, Cam adhered to Foreman’s wishes to do a brain biopsy which turned out to be unnecessary and dangerous because it turned out that he had a parasite that could be treated with an anti-parasitic so in fact Cam was the one who did something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal".

On with the tennis match, if it's all right.... None of the examples you’ve given show that Cam stood up to House by making him change his mind about doing something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal". Did any fellow ever, other than Chase in FJ? Usually even Cuddy can't. But it's not a fellow's job to stop House from doing something premature or potentially lethal, it's Cuddy's job, so there will be very few occasions where we can point to a fellow stopping House. What we should be looking at is whether the fellow bought into "House is always right" position or kept an outside POV that may have been right. Or may not have been but IMO the important thing is whether the fellow thought for him or herself. (I don't think Foreman did until season 4, he was usually opposing House for the sake of proving himself the better man.) House jumps to conclusions and usually treats without verifying his assumptions. What is needed in someone overseeing him is a person who will not take House's word for it but make him prove that what he is about to do is justified. Cameron has a history of not taking House's word just because he says to do it this way and often she's right, even though in the end House is always right because that's the conceit of the show. In TB or Not TB, House knew there was going to be TB and refused to test for it; Cameron convinced him that they had to confirm and treat it in order to rule out the symptoms that were caused by the TB and isolate those that were caused by the other thing; in Deception House refused to consider Munchausen's but in fact, he was wrong about the diagnosis and the true diagnosis was something that was caused by Anica's Munchausen's. Yes, the larger point was that euthanasia is a difficult ethical area but it was Cam in particular who was having difficulties with it. It also showed Cameron weighing the pros and cons rather than taking an easy position because someone told her this was the position to take. That ability to decide on the merits of the individual case is something that is important in the person overseeing House. (It may be that Chase got there too like that but we didn't see it whereas we saw it with Cameron.) I think Cameron did as good a job as anyone could do in this episode. She saw through House's manipulations and forestalled him; she made him justify his tests, she did prevent a "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal" test by making him get an MRI first to confirm the MS and she made him get evidence for the final test. In the end, when it was impossible to prove encephalitis without doing the test, she okayed it. I think Cuddy would have done the same, trusted House, as she has on countless occasions before. Would Chase have been a better choice? I don't think so, first because Chase was very clear he didn't want to babysit House, and second because I think Chase still has his own issues with House and he's still working them out. If it's purely a social occasion, like bowling, Chase is fine with it. But his refusal to listen to House in 97 Seconds and walking out of the meeting in LtD suggests to me that he hasn't yet found a balance in his professional relationship with House. In SDL nothing Cam did or said had any effect on what House did. Max didn’t get her own team of doctors Max did, although the team consisted of Cuddy, who as soon as she heard how much Max loved Hannah she stopped doing a psychological assessment and okayed her for the procedure. After what Cameron said in the team meeting, House asked Cuddy to act as Max's doctor. And he asked her not to delve too deeply into what he was doing, which Cuddy agreed to although she must have known that House was doing something he shouldn't be. (IMO Sara Hess never hesitates to sacrifice a female character for the sake of the drahmah.) In Euphoria, Cam adhered to Foreman’s wishes to do a brain biopsy which turned out to be unnecessary and dangerous because it turned out that he had a parasite that could be treated with an anti-parasitic so in fact Cam was the one who did something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal". That's kind of a tough one because Cameron didn't do it until she thought Foreman was going to die without it. She and House agreed that she would wait until Foreman's O2 sats dropped to 80 (a dangerous level where the brain might be deprived of enough oxygen so as to be permanently damaged) in order to give House enough time to find the answer his way. Since we saw House give his answer only after they had done the biopsy and got their own results, it may be that Foreman's sats dropped to an even more dangerous level. Again, it showed that Cameron was thinking independent of wanting to please House and that's something that was needed in Cuddy's replacement.

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Did any fellow ever, other than Chase in FJ? Usually even Cuddy can't. Chase is the only fellow who did, as far as I can remember, which is exactly what I’ve been trying to convince you of in my posts. To me that makes him the only fellow with a proven record of successfully standing up to House in terms of making him change his mind about doing something "premature, dangerous and potentially lethal. Since House is almost always eventually right, I believe that the key requirement for successfully supervising him is the ability to challenge him and say no to him on the few occasions it is required. And Chase fits that bill, IMO. Even though you may not think that ability is not enough, I am glad I was at least able to get you to see why I think Chase would be the best person for the job. I don’t disagree with anything you have to say about Cam being the fellow who thought independently when it came to matters regarding ethics or about her being tenacious about her theories or about her helping House get to the final diagnosis. But I guess I don’t see those things as necessary to the job of supervising House since his team does those things, IMO. And I don’t disagree that she did a competent job of baby-sitting House, either. But House was right, so things ended well this time. There will inevitably come a time when he will be wrong and she’ll still say yes to him because he’s House and things won’t end well, which is pretty much the point she made to Cuddy. You obviously don’t agree with my criteria for the job or my choice of candidate for it, so we’ll have to agree to disagree. ETA: Cuddy did stand up to House in Fetal Position when she stopped him from aborting Emma’s fetus. But I wasn't happy with the way that was written because she was in baby crazy mode at the time. :roll:

Actually, i just remembered that Cameron did stop House from doing a dangerous and unnecessary venous sampling in Deception in season 2 by proving that the patient was faking her symptoms and didn't need the procedure. (All procedures are potentially lethal if something goes wrong.) She did it after Foreman and House turned down her argument twice. I can see your argument but even under your criteria I still don't think Chase is the best one to supervise House. Chase has a history of agreeing to do things that he disagrees with because it's House asking. Not just when he was House's fellow (e.g. Deception) but even in Birthmarks in season 5 he told the team he would do for House what he wouldn't do for them. Other than FJ, I can't think of any episode where Chase stopped House from doing something, or even argued for his position after House shut him down the first time. I don’t disagree with anything you have to say about Cam being the fellow who thought independently when it came to matters regarding ethics or about her being tenacious about her theories or about her helping House get to the final diagnosis. But I guess I don’t see those things as necessary to the job of supervising House since his team does those things, IMO. One of the weaknesses of the new team IMO is that they don't stop House from doing unethical things or think independently other than in throwing out diagnoses. Taub may say something about House behaving unethically (usually Thirteen and Kutner don't even notice) but then he goes along with what House wants as he did in The Itch. No one on the new team seriously opposes House for reasons other than their own ego (e.g. Foreman and Thirteen), which makes them a much less useful team than the original one. I'm not sure what Kutner was thinking this episode to phone Cuddy. He had done his tests and they hadn't proved his diagnosis. He didn't have anything else to offer other than treatment for something he hadn't shown was there. If he had, Cameron would probably have told him to do it. We got consistency in Cuddy continuing to micromanage as she has since season 3 but it didn't make either Kutner or Cuddy look good. It's the second time in the episode that Cuddy couldn't let go and let Cameron do what she had hired her to do (the first was her warning not to play games with House because she would lose and for which she ended up apologizing to Cameron at the end of the episode for being wrong). In a sense it's foreshadowing The Greater Good, where Cuddy goes back to work because she wants to but she's not aware of it till Wilson points it out to her. Cuddy did stand up to House in Fetal Position when she stopped him from aborting Emma’s fetus. But I wasn't happy with the way that was written because she was in baby crazy mode at the time. In that case, it was Cuddy who was pushing for the dangerous and potentially dangerous procedure. As House said, what she was proposing had only a 1 in 1000 chance of success. The only reason she pushed it through was because of her own emotional issues and projections on to Emma, not because it was the right medical call. We will have to agree to disagree about Cameron and Chase.

Ari, I have a reply for you in the Chase thread.