5.01 - Dying Changes Everything

Are you sure? He was not responsible for her death, so his rationalization about why he shouldn't be held responsible it quite reasonable. I think since the beginning he knew that Wilson wasn't leaving because of Amber, that his decision was based in something much more frightening for House. Despite a lot of misunderstandings, they do know each other very well. Yes, when he says that he felt like crap and that she was dead because of him. You can know that you're not responsible and still feel guilty. I've got no reason to believe he wasn't being honest in that scene and since the line continued with her being dead, it seems like his feeling crap was related to that. House, in an attempt to be supportive, says "Good for you... His first supportive words are: 'you really are milking this bereavement thing...' Very sensitive and very House. True, he said that. He opened with an insensitive comment. He also said that it was an understandable reaction to grief. So, I think House was intending to be supportive. No, he didn't start off that way, but it did happen. The "milking the bereavement thing" weren't his first supportive words. It was the words after that. He'd hoped the by giving Wilson all that time, things would be better. He'd hope that by giving Wilson time, everything would be forgiven and forgotten. Nothing would change, like always. This time something changed and he is hurt, blindsided and angry because he can't control the change - not that he wouldn't try. I'd say the two quotes basically mean the same thing. I don't think House was figuring their entire relationship would get better than it was, but that the issue of Wilson's grief over Amber's death would get better with time, leading things to be as they always were. And, I think he was hurt, blindsided, and angry over more than not being able to control the change. It's over the change itself - no more Wilson. He doesn't want Wilson to leave, can't believe that this is happening, and tries the best he can to find a way to get Wilson to stay. His best is to endanger a patient's life? Is blackmailing Wilson to stay or else he's gonna give up everything? This is not his best, this is desperation because he knew that Wilson, quite likely, wouldn't change his mind. "His" best doesn't need to mean "the" best. But, okay, desperate is a more accurate term. It wasn't the right thing to do, it was a message that Wilson's friendship was more important than what everyone knows is the most important thing to House - his job.

Wilson lays it on him -- not intentionally, I believe, but that doesn't diminish the effect it's got on House. But of course it was intentionally! That was my point, Wilson tried everything to avoid to tell House the truth - that both already knew - but House kept pushing and while House was being his usual obnoxious self Wilson could keep pretending that Amber was the problem but at the end when there was nothing more that he could do, House used something that he knew Wilson would respond: sincerity, vulnerability. So Wilson used the truth. The only way to leave House is to hurt him enough so he wouldn't follow him. Sorry. I can't agree that there is nothing more he could do or that this is the only way. What he did was seriously passive-aggressive. Avoiding any kind of serious conversation with House is just as hurtful, if not moreso, than speaking what he believes to be the truth. And couching it as "protecting House" is a rationalization that I personally believe is bullshit. `Scuse my language. And then, after House finally forces the issue for Wilson to blame his need to leave on House's personality is cruel. That same personality is what attracted him to the man as a friend in the first place. All the time he spent trying to change House, manipulating him and scolding him, says a lot more about Wilson than it does about House. I agree that they're both damaged and wounded souls, and I'm not trying to paint House as the good guy here. I'm just saying that, even though his reaction and behavior are understandable, that doesn't necessarily mean Wilson has handled this any better than House has. I'm sure Wilson has convinced himself that what he's doing is the right thing, and that what he's saying to House is the truth, but there are several truths here, and that is only Wilson's version of it. House has tried hard, in his own way, to resolve an estrangement and has been ignored, "protected" supposedly for his own good, and then slapped in the face for his efforts. The only way to leave House is to hurt him enough so he wouldn't follow him. Sorry. I just can't agree. I think Wilson is rationalizing his cruelty toward House by convincing himself that they were never friends, thereby making it easier for himself to leave. If he convinces himself that House creates misery, etc., then he doesn't have to deal with the consequences of having hurt someone as deeply as he just has. They may have had a dysfunctional friendship and at times a lopsided one, but they were friends. "Look, I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think I've encouraged bad behavior in you. I don't think I can do that anymore..." Do you really think this is something that would work with House? He would laugh and mock anyone naive enough to try this approach. Well, we're not going to know if it would have worked, are we? Because Wilson didn't try it.

My point was that--unlike most duckling exploratory stories in the past--is that there is very little intersection with House himself as a character. Chase might have owned "The Mistake" but House played a substantial role in the flashbacks and the investigation as it went on. But then, in One Day, One Room, Cameron's B story was completely separate from House and without a lot of payoff. They've always experimented with form. I'd not want too many eps with that much of 13 myself--the more House for me, the better. But her story fit the ep and flowed naturally from Wilson's Heart.

This is not a competition of misery, the goal is to make their relationship better, healthier and equal. I feel sorry for them both as well, but I have to ask,: whose goal? I don't think it's House's or Wilson's at all. Right now, Wilson's goal is to start over, away from House, perhaps reinvent himself outside of this relationship which he now finds destructive and has done his utmost to end with the intentionally cruel stroke you describe. No equality, no healthy better friendship, just an end to it: that's what Wilson wants. What does House want? Well, where he is now, is frozen, hurt and abandoned, with whatever comfort he had in his only friendship unmistakeably eradicated. He has no hope for a glimmer of friendship much less an equal, healthy one. He's been blasted out of the water, so this ideal is surely not his goal right now. Whose goal, then? The writers? I doubt it since they are the ones who put them in this situation for the compelling drama of it all. I suspect they will continue the drama as long as they can and that the friendship is indeed over as they have said. (That's taking them at their word without spoilage.) I know Wilson will come back to the show, but I suspect if there is any scrap of friendship to be salvaged, it will be due to House's efforts, not Wilson's. And I doubt if he'll be looking for equality nor will Wilson. Being human beings (well characters based on human beings ;->), both will want the upper hand. So then whose goal do you mean? I can only assume that you mean it's a fan goal, but fans have no power to make it happen, so not much strength in that. And for that matter, such a goal (equal, healthy, and better) though sounding admirable, in reality is one of those mythical beasts. Especially the equal part. IMHO it's impossible not only for this relationship but for any relationship. They are always unequal, though the balance may shift from time to time. Nicely put. I would add one thing, though. I suspect that once Wilson is away and has more time -- the time that Cameron mentioned to him -- he may, as others have mentioned, begin to remember the good things about the friendship and perhaps even to miss them. And perhaps, if we're all lucky, he'll also get even more perspective on his own behavior within that relationship. Yes, he's been an enabler and it's good that he sees that in himself. Maybe he'll recognize other things about himself during this time. He's had in House a friend who has recognized some of his more unattractive qualities and liked him anyway. And that's rare. Still dysfunctional, still lopsided at times (one way or the other, depending on the circumstances), but friendship shouldn't be taken lightly. I would hope that Wilson -- or anyone -- would not throw away friendship, but rather would fight for it and try to find a way to make it work. Close friends -- even in screwed up friendships -- are hard to come by, and it's a shame if they are discarded.

I would hope that will happen in the future as well sherlockjr, but don't see it as terribly likely, at least I don't expect to see it happen overtly. From the point they are at now, it looks like Wilson already took a good, hard look at this friendship and came to a decision about wherether or not it was worth it. Right now, it's not. It already was worth it for House but now, after that scene, it's over. The only thing I see bringing it back isn't so much humane retrospection over what good they've brought each other, more likely is that it will be House's just plain cussedness and refusal to be thwarted: when he wants something, he just is incapable of letting it go. And, as with many things human, often one's greatest weakness is also one's greatest strength and with House, that's it: what serves him well in diagnostics (his Holmesian sticking with the problem till he has eliminated every possibility but one and going with that) might work for him yet again here, at least on the surface. I suspect he'll try many an outlandish scheme to get things back the way they were. But then will it be out of genuine feeling or because he hates change and refuses to lose? And will Wilson come back out of genuine feeling for House or because managing House becomes another part of his job? Friendships get discarded all the time, sometimes even close ones, for seemingly trivial reasons. And this wasn't trivial. It is a shame, but it does happen. I dunno. Complex characters, these guys.

Complex characters, these guys. And that's why we love them so...

I have to ask,: whose goal? Well, since I don't have any doubt that they will amend their relationship: both - and this is not a spoiler! The only way they can find their way back together is trying to be better friends to each other - though I do agree that the equal part is tricky, but not impossible, balance may be a better word. Their relationship will always be dysfunctional and screwed up, but I doubt they will be able to find in anybody else what they love about each other. This is something that we'll never see or interpret in the same way, because our perception of the characters seems to be totally different - Wilson specially. So, let's just agree to disagree.

I think it's fine to agree to disagree, Lully. It's interesting to discuss this stuff. I think another key difference in how we're looking at this is that I'm trying to stick with only talking about what we know as of the end of S5E1 and not speculating beyond that point to where one thinks they could or should go with that relationship. I pretty much am interested in canon and see no reason (other than tv reasons) why others might not meet their needs better in the future. It happens to divorced people and estranged friends all the time. You're looking at it differently and it's cool we can discuss, differ, and respect each other's opinions and viewpoints as we watch the stories progress.

For me, I find it interesting that these two characters and their relationship are so compelling that we can have these kinds of back-and-forth discussions -- that we can interpret the characters in such different ways, and that we can find ourselves so concerned about how things got to this point in their friendship and whether there's any coming back from this apparent ending. One of the things I especially appreciate about the show is its refusal to allow anything to be black and white, whether it be ethical or philosophical questions... or the characters themselves. Yes, House behaves like an ass. But there's a wounded soul there, and a sensitive one, and a severely screwed up one. He's brilliant and funny and entertaining -- all good things in a friend -- but he pushes his friendship with Wilson to the edge just to see if he can. He's obnoxious and disliked, and often not a traditional supportive friend, and yet he was willing to risk his own life and lose his job ("Fire me," he said to Cuddy) and a patient's life for his friendship. I wouldn't object to that kind of loyalty. He's being the only kind of friend he knows how... and he's probably being the kind of friend he wished he had. And Wilson, who on the surface is much nicer, has a dark side. He's clearly very bad at relationships -- as his three marriages testify -- and perhaps this breakup with House is not all that different from the end of his marriages. He's compassionate and has chosen a difficult profession, but he's also manipulative and controlling in his own way, with a paternalistic attitude toward House that if he were my friend would have driven me nuts and probably caused me to act out -- which is what House often does. And yet, he was willing to lose his job and maybe his freedom for his friend. And I can't wait to see what Tuesday's show brings us. Great drama. Great characters. Great TV (subplots notwithstanding).

Absolutely Boffle! I love to read the myriad of interpretations that one scene can inspire. You're right in RL people move on, let behind friends, family and lovers. And if that was the case with this show, H/W would be dead long time ago. The way I see them in canon makes impossible for me to believe that one would give up of the other - ironically what makes me so sure was their last scene in DCE. People who love so much do not give up so easy and despite you may not agree, Wilson's act may have seen as a proof of love, so twisted as House's offer of a patient's life. It's all about perspective.

The way I see them in canon makes impossible for me to believe that one would give up of the other - ironically what makes me so sure was their last scene in DCE. People who love so much do not give up so easy and despite you may not agree, Wilson's act may have seen as a proof of love, so twisted as House's offer of a patient's life. It's all about perspective. I tend to agree, although for slightly different reasons. If Wilson were really over House and really willing to let the friendship go, he wouldn't have been so edgy or so nasty. Regretful, perhaps, but not so vindictive. The opposite of love, after all, isn't hate. It's indifference. And Wilson is anything but indifferent. His emotions may be stuffed far away right now, but it's obvious that he still has very strong feelings about House.

House really wants to give time to Wilson's grief to fade, or House is scared to confront Wilson and does what he always did when he must face an uncomfortable situation: to pretend that nothing is happening? I'd imagine it was some degrees of both, but to me, House's comment to Cuddy at the beginning that he wasn't going to make himself a pain in the ass by seeking Wilson out says he was really trying to give Wilson time -- or at least, that was his conscious rationalization. (And I don't think House is at un-self-cognizant as some would argue; I think he just doesn't spend time navel-gazing when he doesn't think it would be productive, so his conscious rationalization would be a mostly accurate representation of his subconscious motives too. He's not interested in lying to himself.) I think the key here, though, is that the 2 months of silence begin in WH, when Wilson turns away and House is medically incapable of following him. If Wilson wanted to seek him out, he'd have had about two weeks when House was in the hospital and couldn't really have avoided him. By the time House was able to seek Wilson out, Wilson's avoidance would already have been pretty noticeable, especially given that he was in the hospital because of Wilson. And we know from the hallucibus scene that he was worried about losing Wilson, and I think we can assume that in the weeks after, he'd have followed Wilson's lead in doing what he thought would be "safest" for their relationship. So I do think the onus was on Wilson to be the one contacting House first. In DCE, we really don't see House avoiding Wilson at all; he resists a couple of demands that he seek Wilson out, but he doesn't avoid him. Wilson, on the other hand, repeatedly walks out on House. His best is to endanger a patient's life? No arguments that it was a majorly sucky move (though I'm still planning to rewatch for evidence for and against my theory that he'd already diagnosed her). But I wonder if there wasn't more underlying that move. He's not just risking the patient's life -- he's offering up the one thing he's confident in. I don't think it was just saying "the friendship is more important than the job"; I think this was House's version of "the only thing I've got to give". It's certainly something that House thinks is more important than his squishy feelings -- not the job per se, but his expertise, his diagnostic value. I'm sure Wilson has convinced himself that what he's doing is the right thing Which is the biggest problem. We've all seen several times how that conviction on Wilson's part tends to work out for House and everyone else around him.

my theory that he'd already diagnosed her Yep, that's what I thought on rewatch: early on, when he puts together that the patient looks 10 years younger than her real age and she has the intestinal pregnancy, that's when I thought he had the tiny epiphany moment, he had the diagnosis then of pretty leprosy and from then on, he just kept a watch on how things progressed to see if he was right. He was distracted from the patient, yes, but in the back of his mind, he had already solved the case and came in to announce it once he was sure, after the others had done their tests and he had seen the results. That's how he felt safe in trying to blackmail Wilson: it was a "stacked deck" because he already knew the answer and how the disease would progress. His actions when he came in toward the end showed no epiphany moment because that had already happened , the rest was confirmation. So, typical House, he was perfectly willing to let everyone including Wilson think he was endangering the patient's life, think him a horrible person, but, again typical House, he was doing the right thing behind the scenes, and the patient is cured.

Sherlockjr, your post (the longer one upthread) had me tearing up all over again. I identified so deeply with House in this episode. I also have an addictive and obsessive personality and am afraid to open up to a lot of people because I "think different" and have always felt misunderstood and that there was something wrong with me. My response was not to develop an arrogant streak and tell the world that "they're all idiots," but when I do find someone who seems to accept or even embrace my quirks, I cling to them for dear life. (See my "Healer with his magic powers" thread in the Cafeteria for a textbook example from my life.) I have been in the position of being "enabled" in my negative behaviors by someone very dear to me. When this person finally did say, "This is unacceptable and we can't go on like this," it was devastating, but it was just what I needed. Thankfully, this person didn't leave, but it did give me a wake-up call and I am slowly but surely cleaning up my act (knock wood) and recognizing my unhealthy patterns so I don't repeat them. It will take a long time to earn his trust back, however; I may never *fully* earn it back. (BTW, my "issues" never directly or indirectly led to anyone's death. I may be a drama queen, but my life is not a drama series on TV.) Unhealthy relationships become healthy ones (or they end) when both parties recognize the pattern and try to change it. In a codependent relationship, the "put-upon" or enabling person is getting something out of the relationship. What do you think that is/was for Wilson? The chance to play hero/savior/martyr/scold? The knowledge that House understands him better than any of his women ever did? The specialness of being liked by someone who professes to dislike everyone? House's availability -- since he has no other relationships and is there for him when the marriages or girlfriends fail him? I keep turning this over in my head and I really don't know the answer. Although I identify with House, I'm not on his "side" in this against Wilson. Both men are hurting deeply and need to either do some serious work on "this stupid, screwed-up friendship" or let it go. My fangirly heart is sincerely hoping for the former. House without Wilson is, well, Holmes without Watson.

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