4.16 Wilson's Heart

But now that it has hurt somebody else, (rational or not) I think House will rethink his behavior. That doesn't make it his fault, but I would definately think twice next time because it's natural to focus on you part in a tragedy and think of ways you could have prevented it. Agreed, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to cut back on his drinking (at least in circumstances where he thinks it might affect others). It's just that he uses the alcohol because it fills a need, and I don't see him recognizing, on his own without help, any alternative means to fill that need. We can say he ought to reach out to others, but why would he if he thinks he doesn't have any value to others? He might have made some progress with Chase (the bowling scene), but I'd expect the events of the finale to have counteracted that pretty effectively, especially if Wilson does end up rejecting him, even temporarily. I do expect to see it next season, I just don't know how to get from here to there. Cuddy might reach out to him, if they can manage to write her consistently for two episodes in a row, but if that ends badly, as I expect it will... Why reflect more on "how much you suck" which no one has said and instead do something so that you suck a bit less. I think as LMC said that with the circumstances he will look at himself now. If he does he'll see he wasn't dealing with his problems and his isolating and medicating himself more is not the answer considering how badly it has been working. Agreed. But then what is the answer? One that he has the emotional resources to accomplish? He can't just make himself over into a Circle-Approved Happy Person with no self-esteem issues just by deciding he needs to or even wants to. It just doesn't work that way. Even if it was just Wilson's presence, that's still putting Wilson above House. In this of all situations, can't it be about what Wilson needed? No argument there -- I was merely pointing out the tragedy of it, not blaming Wilson. And I don't think it's wrong of any given viewer to put Wilson first. But I also don't think anyone should be faulted for putting House first or wanting Wilson to put House first, because it is after all House, MD, not Wilson, MD. House is first by default. lets Wilson sit at a bus stop when he loses his car due to House's antics I've been trying really really hard not to respond to anything that doesn't directly relate to this ep or at least this arc, but my resolve just isn't that strong. Yes, he let him sit at a bus stop. Big flipping deal. Millions of people take the bus everyday, even, yes, at night, in winter, in the sleet. I'm pretty sure canon has House taking the bus now and then in previous seasons. And aside from random MVAs and the occasional sniper fire, most of us survive just fine. It's a bus, not a plague wagon. Taking the bus isn't going to do Wilson one iota of harm -- unlike the motorcycle, which Wilson thinks is dangerous and irresponsible of House to own and therefore presumably DOESN'T want a ride on. If House had been in a car, then maybe you'd have a point, although I wouldn't expect people who are mad at each other to want to be trapped in a confined space together or to be doing completely unnecessary favors for each other. Eventually, I will get over the terror that arises whenever I think about catching up on the five million posts on the non-episode-specific threads, and when I do, I will be happy to argue whether or not any of the other horrible things House did that fall were justified. But whenever someone mentions that bus stop, they automatically lose the debate. Poor fragile Wilson had to take the bus, oh, what terrible trauma. He'll never recover from the experience. I don't for a second believe that he was only there so House could see him walk away, as I've heard suggested elsewhere I suggested that, but only as an example of something that was just as (un)believable as the suggestion that Wilson went straight from Amber's deathbed to spend hours at House's side with no thought for himself waiting for House to wake up and be okay (despite being able to glance at his chart and see that he'd already woken up). But they didn't know that at the time, they were not clairvoyant. They were still looking for the answer and they had no way of knowing that Amber had the answer, the focus was on House to have it. Nobody suggested that if Amber was conscious she could tell them what was wrong with her. Okay, I give up. Wilson's reason wasn't clouded by emotion, and he was absolutely right that the DBS was the only way to save her, and of course House understood that too. This was absolutely unlike all the differentials they've done in the past; there was no chance that some new twist would have arisen to give them new clues. No one was going to reconsider the sneezing or the rash-like rash; no one would ever have thought of asking the patient what her symptoms were or if she was taking anything else beside diet pills. After they warmed her up to see if the treatment worked and she woke up, she wouldn't have volunteered any information, being content to die rather than say, "hey, I'm taking flu pills!" When the RMSF treatment failed, they would in fact have all just twiddled their thumbs and then gone home. Whatever. You can’t go back now and blame them for what they did based on information they didn’t have. I'm not. I'm blaming people who insist that the danger was greater to Amber than to House and that if they hadn't done the DBS, Amber would have died even if it had been treatable for being just as irrational as Wilson but without his contextual excuses. And I need to get out of this thread because my patience-with-irrationality meter is running way low today. Maybe my English is so poor that I can't interpretate my thoughts in a right way. Ethel, I thought it was clear that "irreplaceable" wasn't really the word you meant in that context and thought about clarifying before anyone jumped on you, but I was afraid to put words in your mouth. I think we both agree that House thinks Wilson is irreplaceable, but that Wilson hasn't always been as ideal a friend as he could have been.

My hopeful interpretation of that scene is that Wilson went to check up on House, and realizing that Cuddy was there with him, and that he had obviously awoken, there really wasn't much he could do at that moment. Yes, Wilson asked House to risk his life, and he should take some of that responsibility, but Wilson also just lost one of the people in his life that he loved, because of, if unintentionally, House. But to say that House's needs in this situation were beside the point and why should Wilson give a toss about what House needs--his request put House in that bed. The situation is not just about Wilson, it's also about House. I think it would be unrealistic and unhealthy for Wilson to, at that point in time, go sit by House's bed for the rest of the night. We have to remember that Wilson had spent the entire night before following House around, keeping him out of trouble, then dealing with House's heartattack, and the revelation that his girlfriend was dying. That takes a lot out of a person both mentally and physically, and if I were Wilson, I would just want to go home and go to bed, which he did. Looking into the future, I feel what might change thier relationship is not so much anger and blame between the two, but the guilt of both parties in the events that happened in the episode.

I suggested that, but only as an example of something that was just as (un)believable as the suggestion that Wilson went straight from Amber's deathbed to spend hours at House's side with no thought for himself waiting for House to wake up and be okay (despite being able to glance at his chart and see that he'd already woken up). I agree, I don't think it was an entirely selfless or an entirely cruel act. I think there were a lot of conflicting emotions going on in Wilson at that moment but I can't wrap my head around Wilson thinking, "That jerk. I'll go see him and when he sees me, I'll walk away just to make sure he knows how much I hate him." And I don't mean you're suggesting that, as I said, I've heard the suggestion elsewhere. I think he did want to see if House was okay, I think he did want to see him open his eyes (as I said, his expressions clearly changes when he does) but I don't think that's all there was to it. We can say he ought to reach out to others, but why would he if he thinks he doesn't have any value to others? Agreed. I can't see House reaching out to anyone new, that's why I think he'll just wind up depending heavily on Cuddy for a while. I believe House and Wilson will be friends again, but I can see House being too scared to approach him, especially if he already thinks he hates him and takes his walking away from him as a sign of rejection. And I can see Wilson avoiding House out of guilt, it being too painful for a while, and possibly taking House's avoidance as a sign of rejection of him. Regarding Wilson waiting for the bus last year, that never bothered me because House paused and looked at him and Wilson is the one who broke eye contact. I blame House for a lot of what happened during Tritter, but the bus is never something that bothered me.

"I'm not okay with this like I said." "I feel excluded and alone." "One night a week and every other weekend isn't enough time" ... <snip>... Saying that you miss your friend and you don’t know what to do about it is not insecurity it is fact and I think Wilson would have responded in trying to assure House that he was there for him and that he mattered to him. Okay, this post actually made me go cry for half an hour -- way better than most fic. :-) Because I can't imagine House, at this point, being brave enough to say the second to Wilson out loud, and I can clearly imagine House's responses to the first and last options: that Amber had already declared that was all he was getting and Wilson and even Cuddy had sided with her and that he was being a bad selfish friend because he wasn't willing to let Wilson be happy. I'm pretty sure that that's what House would expect to hear, and that saying any of that after everything that's gone before would seem equivalent to begging (and not be successful anyway). Thing is, I can see the lovely, reassuring scene you describe, but I can just as easily see Wilson huffing in annoyance, telling him to go make other friends, and reiterating that he's selfish for trying to interfere in Wilson's happiness. And although the former would be wonderful in fanfic, I think the latter would be a lot more likely to happen in canon. Isn't this what happened in both DEC and NMMNG, House's feelings being laid bare and Wilson responding with a smile? Whatever he was feeling even if it had already been said before, so what say it again if it's still bothering you so much. Easy to say, not so easy to practice if you're used to thinking that only one person ever sometimes gives a fig what you feel and you're on the verge of losing him too if you're not good and nonclingy and happy to share. It especially makes me sad because I see the end of DEC and everything that happened afterwards until the finale as House trying -- maybe not always succeeding but honestly trying to be good and nonclingy and willing (if not happy) to share. Wilson self loathing remarks are directed at House based on his actions not their conversations. No argument there, I just don't see how it's supposed to helpful for someone who already has low self esteem to be told that he's bad for feeling the way he does. That's a real good way to convince House it's safe to share his feelings. since in this case it probably involves her maybe she should have been told so she could understand a little better the importance of Wilson to House I would be thrilled to find a believable happy-ending story where this happened and she didn't respond by going into competitive overdrive and instead behaved in a mature, compassionate manner. And where telling her didn't involve revealing House's biggest vulnerabilities to someone proud of her success as a Cutthroat Bitch, who's already shown (with 13) that she has no hesitation about using people's vulnerabilities as weapons against them. The only way I could see this being beneficial is if it was about showing her House's importance to Wilson, not the other way around -- but I think Wilson did just that in NMMNG. Maybe Wilson would see how damaging his part was in not taking a stand about the time he would like to be with House too Well, I would agree, but I get called vitriolic when I point out that Wilson is flawed too. ;-) (And a whole page before I even got vitriolic!)

House calling Wilson for a ride isn't bad in itself, although it's selfish and manipulative, since he could well have taken a cab and left his friend in peace. I think where House's culpability comes in is that he jerked Amber around when she came to get him. Instead of accepting the ride, he annoyed her into downing a quick drink (which might have contributed to her staying on the bus) and left the bar. And he carelessly left his cane (which caused her to have to get on the bus in the first place). He's not responsible for the crash, but he is responsible for the fact that she was on the bus. He obviously does - and should - blame himself to a degree. I can't say I relish the situation they've set up, but maybe it will play out more interestingly than it looks right now. Wilson doesn't interest me as a character, so S5 looks pretty bleak to me. I'm also still irritated at the way this was set up. It's not completely out of character for House to get so drunk at a bar, but he's really never done that before. Before, he'd drink at home. But if he did that, the plot falls to the ground. I feel like they set him up to be a bad guy and bound this load of guilt onto him, and it's too much. I know this is a House-centric view of things, but the Wilson/Amber relationship always came off like a gimmick plot device to me, so her death and his grief still don't seem real or earned (in spite of their very good acting in this ep). If there had been 6 more episodes where Amber's transformation could have been shown-not-told, followed by this two-parter, I might have bought into them as a couple and felt more emotionally involved in this episode. I was tired of CTB as a character, but if they liked Anne Dudek so much, better they should have kept her on the team than have brought her back in a false-seeming subplot. She could have changed gradually on the team, and they'd have had an excellent actress as part of the ensemble. Now they just got rid of her for good and all. I don't get why you would eliminate someone so talented. All JMO.

if they liked Anne Dudek so much, better they should have kept her on the team than have brought her back in a false-seeming subplot. Actually, I didn't start to like her until after she was fired. While she was competing she was just so one note. "I'm a b*tch. I do whatever I have to in order to win. Blah, blah, blah." That got old to me very quickly. I thought bringing her back this way showed another side of her that made her much more interesting, she didn't lose her b*tchiness, but she was still able to function in a relationship. Isn't this what happened in both DEC and NMMNG, House's feelings being laid bare and Wilson responding with a smile? I'm not sure how he should have responded. He didn't really mock him, except for the flashing eyes comment in DEC and this was the first time in a very, very long time that House really showed interest in him. Wilson went from practically no attention from anyone to two people competing for his time and affection. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't enjoy two people fighting over me. I'm not saying Wilson handled the situation perfectly (again with my utter annoyance at ratting House out to Amber in NMMNG) but Wilson wasn't telling him to go away, or make other friends, or to get over himself, or anything to that affect.

Well peggy I think Anne Dudek grabbed the brass ring when she was brought back for these last episodes. She got to play a wide range of emotions with both HL and RSL, had a well-written role in a fascinating finale and she did a fantastic job with it. I think the producers and writers would agree with you that it would have been better to have the whole season to work this through and that is what they had planned on. It would be great to read what their plan for the season would have been and I expect some of these and other story lines would have developed much more naturally. I'd say the last 4 episodes are compressed and serve more functions than just the POTW story, but given that, they work well. Given the constraints they had in putting together a conclusion for this short season, they were ambitious in what they attempted to do and, I think, did a fine job putting them together, the finale episodes especially. I just watched all 4 today and they hang together well, the last two brilliantly well done. Having House get so drunk at a bar came about because he was playing this getting drunk at the bar game with Wilson in an earlier episode (Wilson got drunk and it looked like House stayed sober so he could take him home on time to Amber) and now it was his turn to get drunk, call Wilson and get a ride home. Maybe he was trying to spoil Amber's night with Wilson again. Anyway, it wasn't totally out of the blue. House got himself on the bus and would have gotten himself home: he didn't want Amber's help, and really didn't need it, but she was trying to take care of him. Yes, he has responsibililty for her being on the bus, putting them both in harm's way through a random series of events, and Wilson has responsibility for asking House to risk his life to confirm Amber's diagnosis. But life is messy sometimes and the confusion and guilt and injury they experienced are the kind of things that the patients they see are regularly dealing with: ust this time it's them that are both patients and doctors. They needed a powerful event to change the House-Wilson dynamic (they are brave to keep changing House's relationships on the show and see what we can learn about him by how he comes out of it) and they needed someone very, very good, that could believably stand up to House, have Wilson fall for her and maybe even fit in with their world. She did all that and now she's gone, leaving a void, and yes, a bleak, but also compelling start to S5. I think it's an effective use of her talent, maybe even more than keeping her as a House wannabe duckling or as Wilson's in the background girlfriend. Last year they left House in a position of having been deserted by the ducklings, but being okay with it. This year, his reckless ways, starting with the lightness of the survivor stuff, have now played out with tragic consequences. I think it would have been pretty great to see it happen as planned, but I'm happy to see the series get back to real emotions. For me the falser stuff was the survivor stuff: it was fun and had its moments, but this is way more interesting...and I think there's a lot of potential for powerful stuff in S5.

I'm also still irritated at the way this was set up. It's not completely out of character for House to get so drunk at a bar, but he's really never done that before. Before, he'd drink at home. But if he did that, the plot falls to the ground. I feel like they set him up to be a bad guy and bound this load of guilt onto him, and it's too much. I know this is a House-centric view of things, but the Wilson/Amber relationship always came off like a gimmick plot device to me, so her death and his grief still don't seem real or earned (in spite of their very good acting in this ep) I share this sentiment. Amber was excellently acted, but a bit contrived. Unlike you, I am highly fascinated by Wilson (it's a love/hate relationship), so learning more about him in relationships is in theory a good thing. But, they f***ing killed Amber! What is there to be learned from that? I know some people feel this is a better route than if she'd become another girlfriend, but why? Having a natural falling out of this relationship would have taught us a lot more about Wilson. This feel pretty useless. House and Wilson are going to be emo for half a season, then go back to their same old ways, and we're left wondering what might have been rather than having a better grasp on the Wilson we've known for 4 seasons.

Ethel I'm sorry in case I somehow offended you, I didn't mean to do that Oh hon, you didn't offend me at all... I am difficult to offend. And I hope you didn't feel "jumped on." I was teasing more than anything, which I thought the emoticons would indicate. My reply to you had nothing to do with your use of English or misuse of any words. Bedawyn:Yes, he let him sit at a bus stop. Big flipping deal. Of course it is not a BIG deal and "fragile Wilson" will recover.... it was being used as an example to make a point.... - a point which I thought would be clear from commentary about balance sheets etc. ...but if you really thought the commentary was about the horrors of being subjected to a bus ride, then my point obviously was not very clear despite my efforts. Bedawyn:But whenever someone mentions that bus stop, they automatically lose the debate. Or maybe you have such an instant negative reaction to the "bus" issue that you didn't read anything beyond that comment and thus missed the point I was trying to convey. I wasn't trying to discuss any one individual *wrong* done by one to the other, but that their entire friendship involves a series of wrongs and back and forth misdeeds. To try and determine who loves who more based upon such actions seems totally counterproductive. The bus ride was just an example of the silliness of keeping such a score when it comes to two characters who love to yank each other’s chains. I love the character of Wilson, but that does not mean I absolve him of all the wrong doings he has committed toward House. I am also aware that House has treated Wilson like poodoo in the past as well. That doesn't mean I don't think they both care for each other a great deal. They are best friends and I don't doubt it, but some people seem to think Wilson is a horrible friend for House and he could do so much better. I'd like to see what kind of person would put up with the crap House has put Wilson through without being a total push over that House would have no respect for at all. Bedawyn:Wilson's reason wasn't clouded by emotion... Sarcasm I assume? Actually, I think several of us have been arguing that Wilson's judgment WAS clouded by emotion which is why we don't see his decision as being some rational choice of Amber over House. But I also don't think anyone should be faulted for putting House first or wanting Wilson to put House first, because it is after all House, MD, not Wilson, MD. House is first by default. Well, the show revolves around House, but that does not necessarily mean that House's POV is always the right one, or that his needs always come first. In fact, much of the character insight we get concerning House occurs when he is not given what he needs. To have Wilson come in just to comfort House would have cheapened his relationship with Amber, IMO...a relationship, which as others have pointed out, already seems somewhat contrived and rushed due to the needs to wrap up with season with fewer episodes. *If* we accept that Amber was indeed Wilson's lover and that he really LOVED her, then the idea that he could go from her death bed where he had to turn off her life support machines and hold her in his arms as she died to being able to offer meaningful emotional comfort to House is just too unrealistic in my opinion. To do so might have satisfied those who needed to see a H/W touching moment, but I would have found it even more contrived that the W/A relationship and I think it would have seemed shallow and insincere. I want such a moment, but only when I can actually BELIEVE both characters are capable of it. The eye contact and nod were enough of an aknowledgement for me at the moment. I don't see it as anger or blame, but more of an aknowledgment. "We are still us." Edicotte: I think it would be unrealistic and unhealthy for Wilson to, at that point in time, go sit by House's bed for the rest of the night. Agreed. I suspect with his reserves at the low ebb they had to be at that point, he might only have said something he would later regret. He simply does not have the emotional strength he needs at the moment to deal with someone else in distress. He needs to recharge. Bedawyn:Thing is, I can see the lovely, reassuring scene you describe, but I can just as easily see Wilson huffing in annoyance, telling him to go make other friends, and reiterating that he's selfish for trying to interfere in Wilson's happiness. Yet, that is not the reaction we got when House finally said, "You could do worse than a proxy for me..." Instead, we get a scene in which Wilson seems almost surprised that House is giving him permission to peruse a relationship beyond just his friendship with House. He doesn't mutter something about it being his right or tell House that it would be selfish of him to do otherwise. He is genuinely pleased and happy he has House's "permission" to continue his relationship with Amber knowing that House is not going to hold it against him. I think it this scene we *did* get some of the interplay concerning House's feelings. House claims he does not do self-sacrifice, but that is exactly what he ends up doing... Bedawyn:Well, I would agree, but I get called vitriolic when I point out that Wilson is flawed too. Well, I personally have admitted several times that Wilson is flawed. I never said otherwise. I just don't happen to blame him for the choice he made in asking House to take the risk because I think I can understand his emotional state at the moment. And I need to get out of this thread because my patience-with-irrationality meter is running way low today. So if we disagree we are "irrational" .... :wink: Well, here's to irrationality... because there certainly is a lot of disagreement going on hereabouts, but I still think everyone is being refreshingly polite about it all...so far.

I wasn't trying to discuss any one individual *wrong* done by one to the other, but that their entire friendship involves a series of wrongs and back and forth misdeeds. To try and determine who loves who more based upon such actions seems totally counterproductive. The bus ride was just an example of the silliness of keeping such a score when it comes to two characters who love to yank each other’s chains. I agree with this sense of House and Wilson having a back and forth relationship in terms of who breaches whose boundaries, who is dominant, who asks for too much. I know I would not judge who loved who best by these things--and that includes Wilson being the poor beleagured friend who puts up with that terrible House. Wilson is just as flawed as House, he just hides it better. House has let Wilson down in the past, Wilson has let House down, and both have been there for each other as well. Which is why it rings so false to me that House should take responsibility for the bus crash and hopefully use his guilt to make him change his life. Not only is he not responsible for the random series of events that led to the crash, but he also is not an evil rotten friend because he misses Wilson and tries to keep their old pattern going one night when he's lonely. Wilson has been just as much a part of that pattern in the past--he's a big boy who chose to go to House rather than deal with his relationships. This time he's not, but I see no reason to think House's attempt to see more of Wilson makes him the sort of person who deserves to have what happened, happen, so he's morally responsible if not physically responsible. To me, as well, the point where we saw House and Wilson's relationship in clearer focus was the moment where Wilson was willing to ask House to risk his life in order to lower Amber's risk, not the earlier scenes in their relationship, and not when Wilson didn't enter House's room. What it showed to me was not that Wilson is a bad evil friend (I'm assuming that's hyperbole being quoted from other boards as I've not seen it here), but that he is not as committed to House as House is to him. It's not a crime but it is a fact. Next year, I hope we see both men work through the guilt I know House has and hope Wilson will reach, and I hope we see House broaden who he allows to get close to him. I think this ep showed that the way to get more meaning in House's life is not to try and get closer to Wilson again--he's already offered Wilson his life-- but to accept that there are larger boundaries than he knew with his relationship with Wilson and go on from there. I do think this show is fearless in changing relationships and confounding expectations. Cameron's feelings ended up being more about Cameron's issues than House and she had to take that onboard. Chase's needs ended up being more about finding confidence in himself than getting approval from House. Foreman's issues were more about fearing his own background than despising House's methods. I think we just saw that Wilson's issues were more about a lack of a woman who called him on his shit than a need for House. I still think the two will be friends again, but there's a different dynamic that I can't see reversing.

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