4.16 Wilson's Heart

Which brings up an interesting point: *If* they had warmed up Amber originally, like Foreman tried to do and woken her up, would SHE have provided the information so House would never have had to risk himself and Wilson would never have had to ask...Hmmmmm. Food for thought. I wonder if those questions will occur to Wilson. (However, since it tends not to support my stance, maybe I should just be quiet about it. :wink: ) That's a great point Lagniappe. It doesn't support my theory either, since ours are similar, but it's worth considering and I don't think anyone else has mentioned it. I'd have to think about it but as for right now I guess I would say that they didn't know about the possibility of Amber taking any Meds (although the diet pills were a clue that she self medicates without telling anyone and possibly without a real need) and they didn't think that she would have seen the "mystery symptom” that House recognized. They were working under the idea that House was the key. Which at least proves that for Wilson it was just about the illness and not curiosity or fear about what H/A where up to. I guess that makes that true for House too. What could he possibly have said that wasn't already said in "Don't Ever Change"? …Seriously, what do you think that conversation would have gone like if House had tried to talk to him? Assuming it went any farther than "I'm busy and it's not your night". "I'm not okay with this like I said." "I feel excluded and alone." "One night a week and every other weekend isn't enough time"... Whatever he was feeling even if it had already been said before, so what say it again if it's still bothering you so much. Although frankly if your view of their relationship is so vitriolic especially on Wilson’s part why would anyone even want the two of them ever speaking again. Perhaps the fallout will be for the best and H & W will go their separate ways for good. Wilson is obviously not a good or caring friend, he is manipulative and controlling and only thinks of himself. House doesn’t trust him and really wants no part of him and would be better off taking his pills, getting drunk and stay unto himself. Wilson self loathing remarks are directed at House based on his actions not their conversations. Saying that you miss your friend and you don’t know what to do about it is not insecurity it is fact and I think Wilson would have responded in trying to assure House that he was there for him and that he mattered to him. That he had enough room in his life for both House and Amber and wanted them both in his life. The same way in the past House had Stacy and Wilson in his life at the same time. Wilson has not dismissed what little House has said about his feelings he has asked him to consider moving beyond what he has previously been willing to try to deal with them Vicodin and snark with the more recently added life risking stunts. As for the possibility that Wilson would share what was happening with Amber well since in this case it probably involves her maybe she should have been told so she could understand a little better the importance of Wilson to House and that it’s not just some game of tug a war that she and House turned it into in NMMNG. Maybe Wilson would see how damaging his part was in not taking a stand about the time he would like to be with House too instead of sneaking off during work hours like a couple of kids cutting class to be together because their Mom doesn’t want them playing together. There was so much that could have been said by both of them. Maybe now they get to it but maybe it better that they don’t and it just ends. Why should we assume that it wouldn't have worked this time? Because it wasn't. They were at a dead end. Treating her for a nonexistent tick bite. The sneeze was meaningless without knowing what meds she took they wouldn't have gotten that w/o DBS.

Of course not. I'm saying it's disingenous to claim that House understood he had other effective ways of treating that emotional pain and chose alcohol instead just because he's a reckless self-destructive jerk. Oh, sorry I misunderstood. House obviously had no reason to think that going out to a bar and getting drunk would get anyone killed. He does things like it all the time, and physically the only person he hurts is himself. But now that it has hurt somebody else, (rational or not) I think House will rethink his behavior. That doesn't make it his fault, but I would definately think twice next time because it's natural to focus on you part in a tragedy and think of ways you could have prevented it. but we're discussing a TV series, not life itself Meaning that in real life, love should be unconditional but on TV is should be conditional? :? People were talking about Wilson turning away from House because he was simply too overwhelmed to deal with House at that moment, and I get that. What makes it sad and bad and frustrating is that I don't think House needed to be "dealt with" at that moment. Wilson's simple presence would have been enough for him. I agree that his presence would have been enough. I don't think they needed to talk right then and there, but I don't think that Wilson was ready to do that. He managed to stand there when House was unconscious but when he opens his eyes, Wilson's expression changes. Maybe "dealing with House" is a bad way to put it. How about "Wilson's not ready to deal with the situation?" He had to try and be strong for Amber (and he did a better job than I would be able to do) and after that, I just don't think he had it in him to handle the rest of it. He just wanted to go home and shut it out for a while.

Wilson tries to get House to talk about his feelings (although I've never gotten the impression he's really receptive) because that's the language Wilson speaks, what he needs for his own happiness and what he thinks House ought to need. But I've seen no evidence that it is what House needs, at least not to the extent that Wilson does. Wilson values the words, and House too often refuses to give them and trivializes Wilson's need for them. And House values the actions, and Wilson too often refuses to give them and trivializes House's need for them Here I completely agree, with the exception of Wilson lack of receptiveness. There has to be something to receive and House is a bit stingy on that. It has always been part of the dichotomy of H/W that they value things differently with extenuating circumstances making it even more complicated. If each could see through the others eyes just a little better they could get closer to what they both need. It the goes all the way back to their S1 exchange don't remember the episode but... Wilson: You can be a real jerk sometimes, you know that? House: Yeah. And you’re the good guy. Wilson: At least I try. House: As long as you’re trying to be good, you can do whatever you want. Wilson: And as long as you’re not trying, you can say whatever you want. House: So between us, we can do anything. We can rule the world! Maybe there is still hope. :) Word to ohpointybird and the beauty of the H/W tumble. House obviously had no reason to think that going out to a bar and getting drunk would get anyone killed. He does things like it all the time, and physically the only person he hurts is himself. But now that it has hurt somebody else, (rational or not) I think House will rethink his behavior. That doesn't make it his fault, but I would definately think twice next time because it's natural to focus on you part in a tragedy and think of ways you could have prevented it. ITA. Very well said! I agree that his presence would have been enough. I don't think they needed to talk right then and there, but I don't think that Wilson was ready to do that. He managed to stand there when House was unconscious but when he opens his eyes, Wilson's expression changes. Maybe "dealing with House" is a bad way to put it. How about "Wilson's not ready to deal with the situation?" He had to try and be strong for Amber (and he did a better job than I would be able to do) and after that, I just don't think he had it in him to handle the rest of it. He just wanted to go home and shut it out for a while. And again exactly right. Wilson was a crushed, wasted mess. He had just lost someone he loved after fighting non-stop for two days to save her. On top of all the earlier worry about House that came right after the bus accident. He needed time, he saw that House was not alone but with Cuddy. So he went home to collapse and grieve. I can’t see him being denied that time. Thanks to Namaste for clarifying the medicine and the danger to Amber.

Actually, they couldn't have. Okay, so freezing her long enough to put her on the bypass was necessary. :-) But then they could have woken her up once she was stable on the bypass. There was no reason they could do it when they did but not have done it hours earlier, before the DBS. So again, the DBS was completely, absolutely unnecessary. If she could wake up and say "flu pills" before dying, she certainly could have done so when she hadn't been frozen for as long. But I don't think House realised it only at the moment Wilson asked him such a thing. House was suspected it for years, I believe. <snip> I think he always knew Wilson doesn't love him as much as he loves Wilson. But like many people who love someone deeply House preferred to pretend to be blind. And that night House got the fact he couldn't deny - the confirmation. It's very hurtful, but isn't House a realist? Completely agree. The question now is what will House do with that knowledge. I don't think, though, that House will blame Wilson for it, feel betrayed, or love Wilson any less for it. I think he'll look on it simply as a fact. You don't blame people for the facts, you simply deal with them. What I want to see now is how House is going to integrate that fact into his life. I don't think folks are saying that House was wrong to call for a ride from Wilson when he was drunk. Oh, and actually yes, a few people were saying exactly that, that it was childish and irresponsible and selfish of him to call a friend instead of a cab, that it was petty and manipulative. Thing is, I can see House himself buying that after Amber's death, believing that the only responsible option for him is to withdraw even further, try not to involve anyone else in his problems, try to be even more self-sufficient and isolated. And I don't see a way to get him from that state of mind into a healthier one, especially if we limit the options to those that depend on House looking at his own flaws and deciding he needs to change. It's not that that's a bad thing for him to do, it's just that he already believes himself fatally flawed, so reflecting even more on how much he sucks isn't going to help him.

Oh, and actually yes, a few people were saying exactly that, that it was childish and irresponsible and selfish of him to call a friend instead of a cab, that it was petty and manipulative Well if they were then fine but I would defend them by saying it's not impossible to see even an appropriate move by House having and under tone of pettiness and manipulation. It can be both. That may not be fair but I think we have seen that in the past from him. Plus I go back to the real problem being that House felt compelled to go out an get incapcitatingly drunk instead of dealing with what was bothering him. It's not that that's a bad thing for him to do, it's just that he already believes himself fatally flawed, so reflecting even more on how much he sucks isn't going to help him. Why reflect more on "how much you suck" which no one has said and instead do something so that you suck a bit less. I think as LMC said that with the circumstances he will look at himself now. If he does he'll see he wasn't dealing with his problems and his isolating and medicating himself more is not the answer considering how badly it has been working. If he decides a further retreat is the answer it won't matter, except for work, he'll disappear and sort of cease to exist.

People were talking about Wilson turning away from House because he was simply too overwhelmed to deal with House at that moment, and I get that. What makes it sad and bad and frustrating is that I don't think House needed to be "dealt with" at that moment. Wilson's simple presence would have been enough for him. I'm a bit unclear on the timeline of the two episodes and when everything unfolded, but basically within about a day Wilson went from pounding the chest of his best friend in order to resuscitate him to watching his girlfriend die and turning off her life support himself. To quote a recent fanfic, to me Wilson's look said, "I just can't." I don't want to downplay House's trauma, including being in the accident and basically watching someone he knows die in it. But House is not the one who lost Amber. Quite frankly, I could care less what House "needed" at that moment from Wilson, and I think he would agree. Even if it was just Wilson's presence, that's still putting Wilson above House. In this of all situations, can't it be about what Wilson needed? House had medical attention and also moral support from Cuddy. Even if that wasn't necessarily his ideal, he won't die from not getting what he wants for a little while, or of waiting to talk to Wilson. To me Wilson's looks and actions at the end of the episode were those of a person who is so dead inside at that moment that he has nothing left to give at all. What's enough for Wilson?

So House, (who was willing to let Wilson go to prison for him - calls Wilson pathetic on a regular basis - steals his prescription pad from him- lets Wilson sit at a bus stop when he loses his car due to House's antics - takes a lot of money from Wilson to test their love and points out Wilson has nothing to be ashamed of - etc.), loves Wilson (who was willing to go to prison for him and lost his job for him, loaned him a great deal of money, etc.) more than Wilson loves House? Interesting. Wilson is no angel, granted. He has done things in "House's best interest" that I cannot condone, but what the hell? House isn't exactly low maintenance or easy to get along with. I doubt most of the people on this forum would put up with House for more than a week! I do not see how you can determine who loves who more based upon actions in a relationship that both admit is totally screwed up most of the time. We could sit here and make lists of all the wrongs done on one side or the other, but basically they take the piss out of each other on a regular basis. I am a "fixer" myself, not unlike Wilson in some ways. I seem to attract "damaged" individuals, possibly because I have a high tolerance and patience for behavioral issues others simply cannot handle. And as a result many of my long term friendships are with people who are REALLY high maintenance. They are all unique individuals with wonderful quirky personalities and I cherish each one of them in my life, but they also have very real issues that often end up getting me in deep water as well as themselves. If I measured friendships in terms of a listing of all the wrongs done me, I would not have several of those friends anymore. But as with Wilson and House, the positives outweigh the trauma and drama -at least so far. Friendship shouldn't come with a balance sheet. As for the phone call being "manipulative" I have no doubt it was! Is it a bad thing to call a friend when you are drunk to ask for a ride home? No. Not at all. But this is House. I doubt it was that straight forward. House works on multiple levels. He could have called a cab, but he didn't, and that was a choice on his part. House is lonely. He is out getting drunk because he misses Wilson. Based upon what we know of House’s personality, I think it is very likely a good part of that phone call was a "Let him come and get me and deal with the mess I have made of myself because I miss him and he can see how much pain he is causing me! Let him prove he still loves me." All very human, but also very emotionally manipulative. I don't see it as "petty" so much as "pouty" but House isn't above pouting. House likes playing with the emotions of others. He sees emotions as a weakness he can exploit. In fact, he is a master of it! One of the reasons he likes Wilson is because Wilson is one of the few who is capable of manipulating House as well as House manipulates those around him. He admires that in Wilson because he admires it in himself. Good grief. People are going to think I have no life! Truth is, I am on a heart monitor at the moment and thus restricted a bit in terms of "shoulds and shouldn'ts" so sitting at the computer is a good distraction. But I do need to go make dinner. Squash casserole anyone? Like Wilson, I also enjoy cooking. Or is that only fanon?

But House is not the one who lost Amber. Quite frankly, I could care less what House "needed" at that moment from Wilson, WORD. I feel awful for House. I never hurt for him so bad as I did when he was on the white bus with Amber and I know House feels guilty and worried about Wilson hating him. I feel badly about all of that and I do hope it is addressed next season. But, why can't Wilson take some time for himself? He didn't have to be in House's room at all (I don't for a second believe that he was only there so House could see him walk away, as I've heard suggested elsewhere) but he was. This is not months after the fact, this was hours after the fact. I don't see what's wrong with Wilson needing to be alone right after he lost someone he loved. I'm not going to fault him for not taking that precise moment to comfort House. I must say, I'm glad he's getting more support in canon right now. I was so relieved that Cuddy didn't try to make Wilson feel guilty when she came into his office, or that no one gave him a hard time, as they've all done in the past. Now, I'm sure I've just jinxed him by saying that and next season it'll be right back to, "your problems? Screw that, what about House you sorry excuse for a friend?"

If she could wake up and say "flu pills" before dying, she certainly could have done so when she hadn't been frozen for as long. But they didn't know that at the time, they were not clairvoyant. They were still looking for the answer and they had no way of knowing that Amber had the answer, the focus was on House to have it. Nobody suggested that if Amber was conscious she could tell them what was wrong with her. You can’t go back now and blame them for what they did based on information they didn’t have. I wouldn’t anyway. It's a game of gotcha and it's only good for accessing blame. If you do that then everyone that worked on her case should get some. WORD to your entire post Lagniappe, especially dinner! Crab cakes (in honor of House :lol: ) calling. Hope all goes well with the heart monitor. :winkiss:

I just rewatched. The thing that struck me when Wilson looks in on House at the end was that what he was actually communicating, be it wordlessly, was that yes, Amber had died. That was the question that House was asking, again wordlessly, and that was what Wilson wanted him to know. Once Wilson goes home and finds that card with the heart "Wilson's Heart" and clutches it to his heart, it's clear to me what was being conveyed: Amber was his heart. And it is now broken.

Once Wilson goes home and finds that card with the heart "Wilson's Heart" and clutches it to his heart, it's clear to me what was being conveyed: Amber was his heart. And it is now broken. :cry: WHAAAAAAA! :cry: Damn you, Boffle. *sniff* You just had to point that out, didn't you?

Sorry, Lag, it made me cry too. But it's true and this show is all about the truth, right? :hugs Lag:

Lagniappe, but we're discussing a TV series, not life itself Then why bother discussing it at all? Why pages and pages of trying to sort through things? Why do people become invested in television/movie/book characters at all? If it is so meaningless, why this forum? :twisted: Because on some level, "They are us." At least for me, beyond the entertainment, I find I can learn things about myself and my personal views by thinking about the situations these characters find themself facing. By asking myself, What Would I Do (or WWID :wink: ) I can consider and weigh various possiblities without having to (God willing) ever face such heartbreaking choices in my own life. I'm sorry in case I somehow offended you, I didn't mean to do that :) Maybe my English is so poor that I can't interpretate my thoughts in a right way. Just to keep on the safe side, I want to confirm that I deeply respect other people's mind and think there are no absolute rules appropriate for everyone on the Earth. I only try to express my own feelings about the show, that's all. A TV series (or a book, or another piece of art) is a way to express its creator's view of the things in the world. But a creator doesn't only sit at the table and think what is psychologically relevant for the character to do, and what's not. There are deadlines, temporary lack of imagination etc. So the characters can be changed when they are not intended to be and do something that just doesn't fit in everything written before. And the audience may agree or not agree with this - depends on one's view of life. I'm not even confident the writers know for now how to deal with the situation they showed us in the finale. I mean, the characters are us on some level but the reasons of their behaviour are not necessarily human :) Sometime we try to find characters motives, referring to the psychology and the other clever things, and they turn out to be the deadline in the writers' timetable or something. I hope you see now, I wasn't criticizing ;) This is what I meant saying we're discussing the TV series. But it's very interesting to discuss the show you like with the fellow fans, and (as it seems to me) it wouldn't be so intriguing if all the participants had the same thoughts. And I'm not trying to say Wilson is bad or he didn't have a right to choose Amber or something equally stupid. But I pity House. Someone once said that loneliness is not when you don't have anyone around you, but when all they have someone closer then you. It' House's main problem and it's concerning the main relationship of the show, according to the creators, and that's why I'm stuck with it at the moment.

Regarding Amber picking House up at the bar: I found the interaction of Amber and House at the bar to be intriguing,. Amber was not angry or annoyed, but resigned. She acted much as I would have expected Wilson to act, if he had to come pick up a drunken House at a bar. She carried him when he tried to walk. She paid his bar tab as would Wilson. She made sure he got his cane and rode the bus with him, even though she had to leave her car behind, all of which Wilson would have done. Their actions in the bar and on the bus were grudgingly friendly. They sparred, but there was no dislike in evidence to me. What I found interesting was that this was House's recollection so it was how he remembered it. I think that this interaction implies that House and Amber were moving into a comfortable NON-SEXUAL relationship. I think part of the problem House will have in the upcoming season is that he was beginning to like Amber (liked fighting with her, liked playing games, liked flirting with her) and was beginning to broaden his circle to include her. He recognized and accepted that she was a part of Wilson's life and that meant she was going to be a part of his, in some manner. He has the guilt of her dying to deal with, of failing to save her, of causing her to be in the place she was because of his actions, of Wilson's grief and possible anger and. last but not least, his own personal sense of loss which, I'm not sure others will realize exists.

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