I don't feel a need to blame or absolve either one of them. Blame is too easy for what happened here. Oh, I agree. I meant that about House's fear that Wilson will blame him and blaming himself. I don't blame either one of them. You're right the situation is just too complicated to solve it by simply putting blame on someone. I don't think Wilson saying something like that will take away House's guilt, but it would be an acknowledgement of what House did for him (although they shared a look right before the DBS that I took as a silent acknowledgement but that's only my perception and I could be way off there) so they could at least try and get through it together rather than apart, because you're right, this is a TV show and this is the show's central relationship (at least in my view, other's probably see it differently) so unless RSL leaves, they do have to find someway of getting them through it and I guess I don't find the idea of them being friends again after this as unfathomable as some people seem to. It will probably be different than before but that doesn't mean they still can't be close and love each other. It's not like they ever mention Tritter, this is above and beyond that but still, it was pretty big and they never use it against each other.

I love this post, Boffle, and I have that same perception: how on earth can these two ever find a way to open up emotionally to each other again? What been done I think cannot be undone, not really. I know the writers have a journey in mind, but I think the destination will be a different place than before the crash. this is the show's central relationship (at least in my view, other's probably see it differently) so unless RSL leaves, they do have to find someway of getting them through it and I guess I don't find the idea of them being friends again after this as unfathomable as some people seem to. I know for me, the two of them seemed to have a relationship that didn't clearly fall into "just friends" territory--they seemed to each have boundary issues with how they felt and dealt with each other that was best explained by being drawn to each other over their other relationships. Some people called it soul mates, some people saw it as unacknowledged love. Some people have only ever seen them as friends with no deeper undertones. Since I saw undertones, though I never thought we had any promise that they would go anywhere concrete, I think what happened was friendship changing, even if (when) the writers bring them together. Because I no longer see Wilson as having that way of relating to House. I think the writers were positioning that relationship so it is no longer so clearly the main relationship of the show, and House's other relationships can take more prominence.

I've never seen House and Wilson as anything other than friends. I believe I'm supposed to see them as extremely close and that they love each other (and House is clearly willing to risk his life, not just for Wilson but for Wilson's happiness) but it's a friendly love. And, when I say friends, I don't mean it's not as deep as meaningful as a romantic kind of relationship, because I think friendship is way more valuable than that. I'm not trying to say how other people should view it, just how I do. And, maybe that colors my read on the episode and what it means for the future of their relationship. I do see what happened as friendship changing, but that's true however you view what their relationship is. I mean, there's no way it couldn't change, regardless of whether the relationship is platonic or romantic. Now, personally, I've never been a huge fan of the friendship itself, but I don't see why House's relationship with Wilson still can't be the main relationship, even if they have romantic relationships with others. What I'm really curious about is what House's whole attitude and demeanor will be at first. Will he be subdued? Will he mask his feelings by being his regular Houseian self? Will he not self destruct? I wonder about the last one because he believes he deserves to be hated and that he can't get what he wants - to die (or maybe he wasn't thinking as concretely as that, and just wanted to be in some between place with Amber). So, will he feel that living is what he needs to do to take his punishment? What I can't imagine is House being anything like he's been before. Not for a good while.

Bessie Mae I agree about their friendship being a friendly love...I've always seen it that way too. As for how it will affect their relationship, I think there are several scenarios that may play out...one, their relationship may never be as it once was. Maybe they interact only when necessary on cases, maybe Wilson moves to a new hospital, ???? Two...Wilson's life becomes in peril and House saves him (ick)...bringing the two closer together again. It would have to be Wilson...House can't have many lives left at this point. Three...they both realize what the hell just happened and how much they do need each other after a bit of a break. Kind of anticlimatic. Maybe they're forced to come together and realize their mistakes (if Cuddy makes them do something together or take a case together, or whatever). Four...House is apologetic, but Wilson doesn't accept it and doesn't accept his own responsibility for asking such a thing of House. Eventually, he does and realizes he can't lose House too (I think this is a very likely scenario). Five...They pretend as if everything is okay, but it isn't and it all explodes. Six...House is fundamentally changed (at least for the first part of the season, I can't imagine a non curmudgeonly House forever) and Wilson feels guilty for having lost his friend. Eventally they reconcile. Seven...who the heck knows? Any number of things could happen.

it annoys me when I read it wasn't that big a deal - which I don't think I've seen here, but I have seen thing for House to do. I think it was a huge thing for House to do, maybe the biggest sacrifice of his life, I simply object when people describe it as sacrificing his own life for Amber's as if their chances of death were equal. There was a RISK of him dying or suffering brain damage, it wasn't a certainty and from the way the episode played out I don't think the probability was supposed to be over 50%. There's a big difference between knowing you WILL die and knowing you COULD. Whereas Amber was absolutely going to die if they didn't get the diagnosis. I'm still working out whether I feel Wilson was justified in being selfish here (though in large part because I don't think Wilson and Amber would've worked out, I lean toward no.) So you're judging Wilson's decision based on your feelings instead of his. I have a problem with this way of viewing the situation, because it seems to me that you are both saying that there was no way House could have foreseen the bus crash but at the same time he should take responsibility for it. Not that he IS responsible, jair, but that he'll FEEL responsible. It may make him reflect on the way he lives his life. No it's not rational, but survivor's guilt isn't.

There was a RISK of him dying or suffering brain damage, it wasn't a certainty and from the way the episode played out I don't think the probability was supposed to be over 50%. There's a big difference between knowing you WILL die and knowing you COULD. Whereas Amber was absolutely going to die if they didn't get the diagnosis. I think the risk as presented was higher than that. He had a huge skull fracture that already had led to bleeding out his ear. Cuddy seemed to think that was a very significant addition to the risk and so did Wilson when he was still in his "keep her frozen and don't make a decision" state. So did House, who doesn't shy away from risk. And at the time Wilson made his request, House thought he had a diagnosis--they weren't still frantically searching and thinking Amber would absolutely die. There was a risk that House was wrong and Amber would die if she were warmed. It wasn't 100%. There was a risk that House would die or be brain damaged from the procedure. It wasn't 100%. Both were high. Not that he IS responsible, jair, but that he'll FEEL responsible. It may make him reflect on the way he lives his life. No it's not rational, but survivor's guilt isn't. Because it's not rational, I don't see it as the route to House making positive changes. He already has issues with self-worth--I don't think survivor's guilt will help that. Whatever he needs to find something other than the routes he currently uses to ground his life in meaning (the theme of the entire arc, I think) I doubt it will come from irrational guilt at what was not his fault. I'm hoping Cuddy helps him get past the guilt he lays on himself and and any guilt Wilson makes him feel, assuming that the way it plays out between House and Wilson.

Will he not self destruct? I think that could go either way. On the one hand, his relationship with Wilson is not going to be good for a long time and he'll have his guilt to deal with and he's in pain, and he's miserable. OTOH, now that his self-detructiveness has essentially caused someone's death maybe he'll reconsider the way he behaves or at least the way he drags other people into it. I'm still working out whether I feel Wilson was justified in being selfish here (though in large part because I don't think Wilson and Amber would've worked out, I lean toward no.) It doesn't matter if you think they would not have worked out. All that matters is that Wilson thought they had a chance of working out. I don't see why House's relationship with Wilson still can't be the main relationship, even if they have romantic relationships with others. I don't either. Obviously, they won't start next season stealing each other's guitars, but I just don't see this as the end of this being an important relationship for House. If anything, it just reinforced how much House loves Wilson. I don't expect them to go back to the way they were overnight, I don't even expect them to go back to the way they were at all, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. They could wind up having a deeper understanding of each other and what they mean to each other. I expect House to lean more on Cuddy for a while but I just don't foresee a permanent seperation between H&W Possible spoilers-otherwise why take any time next season at all to address it? That could have been the end of H/W right there. There would be no need to keep telling us about it if they were just going to be estranged forever. jair, your issue seems to be (I am not meaning to come off as rude) that you feel Wilson's request fundamentally changed House and Wilson's relationship. That it somehow proved that House just isn't as important to Wilson as you thought he was. If I read it that way, I'd be concerned and upset too, but I didn't and it doesn't seem to be an impossible thing to me to make them close again.

jair, your issue seems to be (I am not meaning to come off as rude) that you feel Wilson's request fundamentally changed House and Wilson's relationship. That it somehow proved that House just isn't as important to Wilson as you thought he was. If I read it that way, I'd be concerned and upset too, but I didn't and it doesn't seem to be an impossible thing to me to make them close again. I don't take that as rude at all, and yes, I think you are reading me right. I do think something has fundamentally changed and it does concern the way each, at heart, regards the other. I always thought the two of them needed each other more than anyone else. I no longer think that on Wilson's part. I think they can be friends again, but I don't think House thinks any longer that Amber was a proxy for him. I think we saw that Wilson values House's friendship, to the point that he knows that if he asks House to risk his life, he will, but he values what he has with Amber more, and House has been an impediment in his life to finding a relationship like that. As David Shore said, that is series changing.

So I’ll jump back in big time even after as Taiga rightly says the horse is really taking it on this one. The fact that House was mostly doing this for Wilson is one reason I don’t think House will hold this against Wilson or that he has or will see it as a betrayal or a sign that Wilson cared for Amber more than him. He will see it as an understandable request between two people who love one other. That is why Wilson was able to ask House, because he loves House and he knows House loves him and that was why House said yes so quickly. (FWIW, the amount of time that transpired from when Wilson nods his head that yes he does want House to risk his life to save Amber to House considering and nodding his agreement is 7 seconds. The total amount of time from when Wilson finishes asking House to have the DBS, House asking if Wilson wants him to take that risk to save Amber, Wilson considering and nodding yes and House nodding in agreement is 22 seconds.) House does love Wilson and he knows Wilson loves him and that is what people who love one other do, they give to each other what they cannot get from anyone else. What you get from different people are different things but all are valued. For House to feel betrayed now by Wilson asking him would make what he did for Wilson also a lesser sign of his love. I can’t see House not understanding the circumstances even in retrospect and considering how Wilson came to the point of asking him and feel that it means something negative about Wilson’s feelings or regard for him. That would be taking the request not only out of the context in which it was asked, Amber’s impending death (as Wilson saw it and seemingly House too since he says you want me to risk my life to SAVE Amber’s life. Not help her or improve her chances), but what we learned in the DBS about how H/A came to be on the bus. The idea that you have to pick one person to love most in your life or that if you ask one person to make a huge sacrifice for another it is indicative of not loving that person you ask as much as the one you ask for I don’t understand. Who does that? We all have varying combinations of spouses, S.Os., siblings, parents, children, beloved friends and if we love them I don’t think we ever truly pick one above all others. We love them all, differently is perhaps the most you can say with any certainty. Circumstances rule the day not loving one more than the other. (Parent-child may be the only general exception but that is in part the responsibility of caring for those younger and more vulnerable). I think a lot of us have looked at H/W over the past 4 seasons as spouses (sexually or platonically) I know I have :D . Even while playing with the connection of H/A being the “same” perfect person for Wilson and the triangle I think the show was telling us here in no uncertain terms that is not how they see them. Wilson has said since the beginning that he has wanted someone else in his life besides House. That he doesn’t want it to end up just he and House because he thinks they will be miserable. That’s at least in part why all the marriages and now Amber. Wilson has also always wanted House to try to have someone else in his life besides him. Wilson doesn't consider that a threat to their friendship or a sign that they do not love one another or they will each love someone else more. That is why I think there was no animosity shown between W&S and why Wilson has encouraged House to find someone, whether it was trying things with Cameron, reuniting with Stacy or even just admitting feelings for Cate at a time Wilson knew he was developing feelings for Amber. As long as Wilson can be as certain as possible that the chance of House being hurt can be minimized he thinks House connecting with a woman as a partner is part of what House needs to be happier. Wilson just hasn't felt that they can be happy on their own together or give each other everything there is for them to have in life and not just sexually. After the Tritter arc subsided and as Wilson lingered on his own in the hotel going on almost two years, while House did the same in his apartment, House had the chance to use it as an opportunity to get closer to Wilson, to be there for him, to have Wilson all to himself if you will and he turned it aside at every juncture. Wilson had every reason to think that House didn’t want that closeness with him and so he was still open to finding it elsewhere. House and Wilson are being shown in W's H more as closest of friends’ perhaps even siblings. If in the exact circumstances people were faced with asking a sibling the they deeply loved to do something risky and under dangerous circumstances to their health and life in order to help save their spouse’s life, (and that is how we were being asked to view W/A from the moment House suggested that Wilson lie at PG that he was her husband. Whether we think W/A would have lasted, and I never did, we are not looking into the future or calculating how little they have been together but considering the feelings at this time and at this time he does love her and House knows that.) who was in imminent danger of dying would we ask, not pressure or guilt or demand, but ask them to consider taking a risk they already had said they would willingly do. I think most people would struggle, as Wilson did, but would have to ask. If the answer was no I think they might be disappointed but they would accept it, if the answer was yes they would do everything to be sure that the situation proceeded as safely as possible while still being successful, otherwise what’s the point. When House had the DBS despite all the concerns and danger clearly Chase and Cuddy assented to it happening, each could have stopped it, Cuddy in particular. If they don't feel guilty for not protecting House then I can't see Wilson being made to feel guilty by asking him. Also this wasn't about not trusting House's diagnostic process but finally not hampering it and relenting to it. This is the step that was skipped as they all tried everything else. I don’t think Wilson will feel guilty as much as grateful for what House did and that may be what tempers Wilson’s anger and disappointment in House regarding his part in the circumstances that lead to he and Amber being on the bus. Wilson also understands the circumstances of the situation and I think he knows that if the situation was reversed and it was Stacy dying and House asked Wilson do this for them Wilson would say yes. To call Wilson’s friendship constrained or any variation on that, I find absurd but others are entitled to that opinion. But I think possibly that difference of opinion may be what is coloring the debate here; Those who think that in the past Wilson hasn’t always done the right thing regarding House but considering the circumstances understood why he did what he did then think that now Wilson has no reason to feel guilty for asking House to have the DBS and feel that House will not resent it but understood it and saw it’s necessity. Those that feel numerous times in the past Wilson's actions wronged and hurt House see this as the worst example of Wilson not fully appreciating and doing the right thing by House and that Wilson needs to feel bad for putting House at risk or otherwise he's not a true friend. Mileages Vary. As we move forward with the aftermath of Amber’s death, Wilson’s pain and whatever part House feels he played in it I think House may start to take a closer look at his part in making himself and others, in particular Wilson, unhappy and try to see what he can do to change that. If he can stop always opting for the self-destructive and the selfish he could be better for himself, for Wilson and in general. Wilson even during his grief, anger and disappointment will always know what House did for him. For that he may come to appreciate and love House even more than he already did. But if House’s behavior and attitude don’t alter from before I think Wilson will feel less inclined to be that close to House opting to protect himself for a change and not House. He has just lost Amber in a set of horrific circumstances that were set in motion by House being irresponsible and unthinking. I can’t see him keeping his front row seat until the same thing happens again but this time to House. To me two other things that Wilson has always feared is losing House and seeing House be responsible for grave damage to someone else especially if it is an off shoot of what Wilson sees as House’s reckless thinking and behavior. One of those two things just came to pass. House changing is the key to me, not Wilson, by virtue of House improving then Wilson could stop feeling like he is constantly running around putting out fires that House has lit, even though sometimes Wilson does that by burning down something else. Wilson would be able to appreciate all of things he has always loved about House and they would be less obscured by the vision of all the things House has done because he just doesn’t care what happens. Now House in a sense says he cares. We’ll see if he can do anything about it. House could ease, if not eliminate, his own pain and misery and his fears about pushing Wilson away. He could stop testing the friendship and enjoy it for the first time in a long time. If that ever comes to pass maybe then these two people could feel secure enough to get closer to each other again maybe more than before and by chance they may eventually get everything they need from each other. Lots of Word to most of the ideas put forth over the last 10! pages or so by Lully, NekoCat, Dr. Spaceman, LightMyCandle, Lagniappe, ohpointybird, Bessie Mae and Taiga. Also Bedawyn on the H/W relationship.

To me two other things that Wilson has always feared is losing House and seeing House be responsible for grave damage to someone else especially if it is an off shoot of what Wilson sees as House’s reckless thinking and behavior. One of those two things just came to pass. I think we saw Wilson face both of those things, not just one. He faced losing House and was prepared to be part of what might bring that to pass. There was a scene that focused on that aspect of what was happening. We saw that there is something Wilson fears more than losing House and that's losing Amber. A choice was made. It was a hard choice, but it was a choice. Also, House was not responsible for causing Amber's death, and if Wilson sees it like that, that's his issue to process and get over. Hopefully House will have someone in his life helping him release the level of guilt he was feeling in the bus. His life is worth as much as anyone else's.

Quote: I'm still working out whether I feel Wilson was justified in being selfish here (though in large part because I don't think Wilson and Amber would've worked out, I lean toward no.) It doesn't matter if you think they would not have worked out. All that matters is that Wilson thought they had a chance of working out. I agree that what Wilson thought matters more than what anyone else thought. But, does it even matter if he was thinking about them working out? I'm not saying he was assuming it would be temporary, but did he actually have to be thinking about white picket fences and growing old together? Isn't it simply enough that he was in love with her for the time they were together? I guess I'm wondering if the depth of someone's feelings is directly related to how far ahead they're thinking? House does love Wilson and he knows Wilson loves him and that is what people who love one other do, they give to each other what they cannot get from anyone else. What you get from different people are different things but all are valued. Thank you. That's just how I feel. The idea that you have to pick one person to love most in your life or that if you ask one person to make a huge sacrifice for another it is indicative of not loving that person you ask as much as the one you ask for I don’t understand. Who does that? We all have varying combinations of spouses, S.Os., siblings, parents, children, beloved friends and if we love them I don’t think we ever truly pick one above all others. We love them all, differently is perhaps the most you can say with any certainty. Circumstances rule the day not loving one more than the other. (Parent-child may be the only general exception but that is in part the responsibility of caring for those younger and more vulnerable). Again, exactly how I feel.

filey, that was beautiful. I so agree with everything you said. I've said before that one of the reasons Wilson's request didn't shock me is that I've never seen Wilson totally content and complete with it just being him and House. He stayed in his limbo state at that hotel for two years, he got married three times, he declined to move back in with House,...etc. I knew all of this but it never made me feel like Wilson did not love House. He has always encouraged House's romantic life, he's never shown any jealousy about it the way House does about Wilson's. I think he feels that if they can both be happier in other parts of their lives (as Wilson was with Amber) then they can enjoy their relationship more because they don't have to soley rely on each other. You're right on the "I love X the most" issue too. I could not pick the person in my life that I love the most because there isn't one. I love a lot of people differently but in equal amount. And I still don't believe this was a clear-cut, Wilson values Amber more than House. I said before that I think this episode reinforces how much House loves Wilson and I also think it shows how much Wilson is secure in the love he and House share in a way. There is absolutely no way I could ask someone who I did not completely love and trust with my life to risk their life. Again, fantastic post filey . :D

Just saw the finale. In order of importance: 1) AMMMMMBEERRRRR! 2) 13 is positive for Huntingtons! 13 is positive for Huntingtons! (which makes a picture I took on my trip MUCH more entertaining) 3) I spent the entire episode going "SOMEONE needs to give Wilson a hug!" 4) AMBER! 5) Awww. House cried. 6) Flippy hair! 7) Yay for dream/hypnosis/hallucenation scenes! 8) Lots of House/Wilson friendship vibes here. Always nice. I did my internal happy dance when House said, in that little kid voice, "But Wilson's my best friend." 9. Want Season 5. kthxbai Good episode. Not as weird as Bones, thank God.