That said, I think Wilson loves House, but that the depth of his love has been constrained by two things. The first is that I don't think he's ever really understood how much House cares about him. Their interpersonal styles, their "love languages" (excuse me while I gag at using that term) are so different that Wilson hasn't reliably been able to translate House's behavior into the affection and concern they represent. Hopefully, once his immediate grief over Amber has diminished, House's willingness to sacrifice for him will be easily translatable. The second is that I think Wilson, even more than he loves his women, loves the ideal of heterosexual normative marriage. While he may put House ahead of his soon-to-be-ex-wives, he thinks he should be putting the women first, or that he should be able to find a woman he can always put first. This is why we see him pushing House at various women even when House doesn't seem motivated to seek romance, being content with their friendship and the casual leer. House has valued their bond first (homoerotic or platonic), while Wilson has put their bond ahead of his actual wives, but second behind the ideal. I also think that, however fond he may genuinely have been of Amber, at this stage of their relationship she was still more important to him as that potential ideal than for herself as a unique woman. And I hope that, once the immediate aftermath is over, he'll be able to see that his prioritization of the ideal over the real (his bond with House) could very well have lost him both (killed House without helping Amber), and he'll begin to reconsider his priorities. I don't think I have ever agreed with you more. One of the reasons that Wilson's request was not such a shock to me as it was to some others is that I never saw Wilson as completely satisfied with just House in his life and pre-Amber I thought he needed to learn to be because he was never going to find anyone who gave him what House did, and I thought that in actuality he wanted House more but he wanted the idea of marriage, but then Amber came along. I think Wilson has always wanted the normalcy of marriage and all that comes with it but something about House always prevented him from really being able to enjoy or even fully have that life. He was stuck between two worlds that he could not combine and that he could not be totally fulfilled with just one or the other. With Amber he could have had both, much the way Amber could have had love and respect, JMHO. As for the first point, I think their "love languages" are definately different. I've often thought that House has before made some gestures that were showing how much House loved Wilson but Wilson never read it the right way and it frusterated me. NonCancer Guy is the immediate example that comes to mind. I thought House was trying to help Wilson but Wilson just saw it as House screwing with him because he needed to control everything. He was just someone who opened his fat mouth in that episode. WORD, I love Wilson but sometimes... :evil:

I've been hashing this out in my head for awhile (sad, isn't it?) and hopefully I can be somewhat coherent here. I don't think Wilson was thinking in terms of House as his best friend or primarily about the possible outcome of the risks he was asking him to take. He was thinking of House as the medical genius, the guy who has been known to be willing to take huge risks, and the only guy who could find out if there was some clue they missed, because he was the only one who was with Amber. So, from my view, it wasn't about him saying he needed Amber more, but that this could be the only way to save her, and House was the only person who could do it. Now, I'm not saying Wilson was unaware of the dangers, and even if he was thinking too irrationally to really consider them when he asked, House did specifically point it out. So, he knew, and that's why there'll be repercussions and Wilson will have to really think about what he asked once the grief and other emotions about Amber's death have died down. I hope he will feel something about what he asked of House. But, for me, my belief that this (the risk to House and his friendship with him) wasn't at the forefront and he was seeing House more as a doctor, is why this isn't about how he views the friendship. But, another thing that bothers me. I've seen it on other boards. The idea that because House has been willing to risk his life before for puzzles, him doing it here isn't really that significant. People are always down on House for how mean he can be to Wilson. And, believe me, I do not love House because I think he's a saint. But, here's a huge display of just how much House cares, and it's trivialized. Why House was willing to do this was very important. Even if he wanted to know the answer as well, the main reason wasn't from the stand point of a doctor or someone obsessed by the puzzle, but as a friend. He was doing it, first and foremost for Wilson. I wouldn't care if House stuck screwdrivers into electrical sockets once a week, it wouldn't invalidate the huge meaning and expression of love that this act gave. That Wilson put Amber first shows me that Wilson hasn't learned much about what and who are actually important in his life at all. This sounds like it's an either/or situation and I don't see why it should be that way. (Wow. This is a far cry from my feeling him leaving House O.D.ed a year ago was justified...) I frequently find myself in the position of wanting to kill Wilson for things most people sympathize or don't see as really harmful (like lying to House in Meaning) but then not thinking he's done anything wrong for the very things others are appalled by - like leaving House when he O.Ded and asking him to do the DBS here.

I frequently find myself in the position of wanting to kill Wilson for things most people sympathize or don't see as really harmful (like lying to House in Meaning) but then not thinking he's done anything wrong for the very things others are appalled by - like leaving House when he O.Ded and asking him to do the DBS here. I find all those things appalling, yet I still have a lot of like for Wilson. He is deeply flawed, he just doesn't look it (I still think he has a portrait at home that is getting pretty grisly and gruesome by now). I thought Cate said it well, that House is an ass, but a straightforward ass, but Wilson, not so nice as he seems: not by a long shot I'd say. And yet, I don't hate him (except when that whole Meaning lie comes up, don't get me started) and I like the two of them when times are good: he's a complicated character, a worthy foil for the even more complex and damaged House, who has now been nearly ruined by these events, physically and emotionally and possibly even mentally. What has he lost as a result of all these injuries and how does he make it back? Such brilliant work on these last episodes, I wait in awe of what they will do next.

He was doing it, first and foremost for Wilson. I agree but Wilson might not (at least not now, maybe later once the grief lessens) see it that way. As I said in my previous post, I think a lot of the things that House does for Wilson go right over his head and he doesn't realize that House was doing it for him. frequently find myself in the position of wanting to kill Wilson for things most people sympathize or don't see as really harmful (like lying to House in Meaning) but then not thinking he's done anything wrong for the very things others are appalled by - like leaving House when he O.Ded and asking him to do the DBS here. Hee, I thought the lie in Meaning was the worst thing he's ever done (aside from Grace but that's different for me) and I was actually proud when he walked away in MLC and I am not appalled by his actions in W's H.

So I don't think we should be sad about the change in their relationship. If it forces both of them to re-evaluate their relationship and approach it from a less-clouded, more equal stance, then it paves the way for their relationship to be stronger and deeper than ever. There's a lot to what you say, as HL would say! But only if Wilson actually does that kind of soul searching and questioning. I'm not sure that's where we're headed.

I think it's a matter of how one feels Wilson accounted for House's well-being in each of the situations. In MLC, Wilson, IMO, did something cruel as a wake-up call to House. To others, it was a selfish move for his own emotional well-being. The latter group is probably less surprised by Wilson's Heart, in which it's more clear that Wilson is being selfish. I was appalled by all of those situations and in each case, because of how Wilson accounted for House's well being. Of course, I see House as in the middle of an OD in MLC and in need of medical attention. And with all that, I still love my deeply flawed Wilson. But House needs to find someone who can read his love language and put him first. Then the constrained friendship Wilson offers will be enough. Unless we really do see Wilson look at the choice he made and convincingly show us that it wasn't necessarily the choice he should have made, given his feelings for House. And since I agree with a poster upthread--that the circumstances we saw Wilson in made him make that decision from his heart and his gut--I'm still unsure how Wilson could backtrack on how he evaluated his two relationships.

Cuddy thought House doing the DBS in his condition would most likely be fatal. My impression was that Cuddy's statement wasn't meant to be taken literally, but was more of the kind of statement you say to an annoying child...like, "If you do that again, I will kill you!" You don't necessarily mean it, but you mean you are serious about having the child stop. To me, her "fatal combination" statement was an exaggeration of the potential risk meant to impress upon House that she REALLY REALLY needed him to stop pushing himself. It does not mean there wasn't a risk, obvously there was, but that it was not necessarily "fatal." I will never see this as an either/or Wilson chose Amber's life over House's moment. It wasn't presented to the audience as a Sophie's choice moment, and I don't think it is fair to Wilson to judge it that way. It wasn't..."If we do this Amber will live but House will die." If it had been, Chase would never have agreed to it. It was more of an "Amber might be okay with this treatment, but if the treatment is wrong she will die, and there might be more House knows cause there is something else going on here and maybe we should take the risk to find out even though there is a danger to House's life and oh my God she'd dying and what if he dies but he already was willing to risk it and what should I do and how to I decide and what if I am wrong, but what if Amber dies and we didn't try it and House did know something...etc." I don't think anyone can accurately say what they would do in such a situation unless they have been there - to assume one would never ask such a thing of someone , or want to pressure or guilt someone into taking a dangerous risk or risk one loved one for another... you don't know till you are standing in their shoes. I know myself very well, but I would not hazzard a guess as to what I would have done in Wilson's place. And I don't feel qualified to judge him. Grief and fear do strange things to people. I also think it is a bit harsh for people to suggest Wilson is not really a very good friend to House and he should find someone better - the man was willing to go to prison for House! How many of us would do that for someone? ...and they still asked you not to just decide but nearly demanded that you do it? You really got the impression Wilson "demanded" this of House? Not my impression at all... he asked. Maybe even pleaded with those puppy dog eyes, but demanded? I think that is a bit extreme.

the man was willing to go to prison for House! How many of us would do that for someone? My best friend and I both watch House and last season during Tritter we flat out told each other that we would never go to prison for the other, especially if we did actually break the law (which House did.) I certainly don't think that makes either of us a bad friend to the other. Much love and total agreement for the rest of you post Lagniappe.

I think the DBS was potentially fatal, but I think that was meant to tell us more about House and his devotion to Wilson, than the other way around. Grief and fear do strange things to people. Exactly. They've made a point that when you're too close that effects you and your judgment, and I just don't see weighing his actions in this situation, where he was, for all intents, a grieving family member the way I would if he asked House to risk his life for one of his cancer patients. That, I would find utterly appalling for Wilson the doctor to do. Wilson, the fearful, irrational, "husband"? I can understand that. It may also be that he needed House to have the less intimate role of doctor in that moment, not friend. Maybe that still sounds like him valuing House less, and I'm not sure how to put it so that it doesn't. But, maybe he couldn't think of House as his friend, because he needed House as the doctor. I hope Wilson feels some guilt or horror at what he asked House to do, later. But, not in the middle of a situation where one person was dying. Where he was scared that she would if they warmed her up and didn't have the answer. Where, the risk to the other person (House) in his mind weren't as certain of happening. If he let himself truly think of the risks to House at all. You really got the impression Wilson "demanded" this of House? Not my impression at all... he asked. Maybe even pleaded with those puppy dog eyes, but demanded? I think that is a bit extreme. I didn't get demanding, either.

I also think it is a bit harsh for people to suggest Wilson is not really a very good friend to House and he should find someone better - the man was willing to go to prison for House! How many of us would do that for someone? Not many...but House was willing to potentially die for Wilson. There's a difference there. Being willing to lose your job and give up your freedom for someone is HUGE. It's enormous actually. But whether everybody wants to try to calculate the actual chance of House dying from that procedure or not the point is that he totally could have died. Maybe the possibility or probability or whatever was low...but the chance was there. So he was willing to give his life if that's what it came to and that's even more enormous...can't work or have freedom at all if you're dead!! :wink: I'm not totally sure why the whole thing has come down to trying to figure out who loves who more...House or Wilson...but I think it's interesting and surprising (and satisfying to me) that in the end we've seen House willing to go farther for someone he loves than any of the other characters. I like that cause it's not what you'd expect. But House is never what people expect him to be...so that works.