My parents met three months before they got married and other than war and hospitalizations were together every day of their lives for 64 years. More anecdotal evidence? I knew someone who got married six days after meeting his wife, and they just celebrated their 40th anniversary. Those are anecdotes that show there are exceptions to every single study written out there. My parents have both said they knew on the first date, and my dad proposed within three months. Everyone around them said he was rushing into it and it'd never last, and they've been married for over thirty years. Their three month dating period is less time than Wilson dated Amber. My parents both have best friends that they love dearly, but I can't imagine if, (God forbid) something terrible happens to one of them the other one would say, "Meh. Well, guess it's time for them to go."

I see Wilson asking House to risk his life as something that is more simplistic than may meet the eye. I don't see it as he's known Wilson for umpteen years, where as he's known Amber for a short time...but rather, he loves them both. His asking I think stems out of an intense moment of extreme stress in which a decision must be made and in that instant, this is his choice. I think it boils down to...what would you do if you were placed in someone else's shoes in such a circumstance. We can't honeslty say because we haven't been placed in those shoes. We THINK we might never ask such a thing of a friend, but we really couldn't say unless we were placed in that exact same position. And, given the stress levels Wilson was dealing with (and keeping in mind he deals with depression to the point of medicating himself)...this situation may have pushed him a little over the edge as well. He's frantic for a solution. Sometimes, you can't control emotions in a frantic state. And he may well have not been thinking rationally, that frantic urgency may have taken over his rational thought. I don't doubt he loves House. I don't doubt he loved Amber. I just see it as an extremely urgent, stressful and frantic decision that Wilson made, perhaps not even really thinking it through. It's like the choice House gave 13...either she stabbed the guy in the heart or she didn't, she had to make an instant choice, and she did. Wilson made an instant choice, I don't see it as right or wrong. It just is what it is. I'm not so sure either House or Wilson will play the blame game. It might be that their relationship will be stressed/tested because each feels extreme guilt and avoids the other thinking the other will place blame. I don't know though, there is the potential for Wilson to (I think unjustly) blame House for something that was an extremely unfortunate, out of his control, event and House may blame Wilson for willingly/knowingly risking his life.

Hell, you might as well be watching "The Lone Ranger" if you think it's as simple as black and white -- that's not what "House" is about. It's about just how messy and messed up this world is. Nothing is simple. Nothing is easy. Nothing is black and white. I agree that life and relationships are seldom black and white. And I agree that we love whom we love and there are no rules, though most people don't fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum. I see no reason to question whether Wilson loved Amber. However, I do think sometimes we get moments of clarity where the outline of what something is becomes clear, and nothing is the same after that. It's often in times of stress. I think Wilson had his moment of clarity, which in turn gave House his. They still have to deal with how messy life is, but I think that moment of clarity fundamentally changed something about their friendship. House may blame Wilson for willingly/knowingly risking his life. To me, it's more likely he'll accept it and what that means about where he falls in Wilson's life. It will push House to be more open to another relationship--most likely Cuddy, his other long time friend who is currently there for him.

I think the bigger issue here is that we don't define love the same way (not that we ought too either :) ). Love is difficult to define, it's hard to know how oneself feels, let alone someone else. However, Wilson's priorities are made clear in this episode. Amber>House. Yes, there's more to it, but House made it clear when asked that such was his assessment of things. Most people fortunately never face a situation as extreme this, but Wilson did. It seems a bit silly not to learn from that. But, in smaller ways, we prioritize the people in our life all the time. Arguments between spouses and in-laws, how to schedule time and balance work and family, etc. Want more anecdotal evidence? ... Those are anecdotes that show there are exceptions to every single study written out there. Why bother quantifying human behavior at all if we can't form conclusions based on the evidence? I can think of plenty of specific examples for my POV that real love is something that you figure out over time, and those tend to happen a lot more often. Hypothetical: let's say I have a teenage daughter. She's 16, knocked up, and met the "love of her life" a few months ago. If she moves in with him, there's a 10% everything will pan out, a 40% chance she'll drop out, and a 50% chance that he'll beat her and be a miserable drunk. I'm gonna be a hater and suggest that she stay in our home, let me help with the kid, etc, while she finishes school and gets to know this guy better. If this needs to be anecdotal to prove a point, I graduated high school in 2003 with 7 teen moms in my class of ~100. Most have not had happy endings, but the two that stayed with their families are doing better. Rushed marriages are a gamble. No, nothing is certain in life, but relationships become calculated risks over time. To me, the accomplishment, the goal, is to have that long-term partner, and have it be a happy relationship down the road. Not all long-term marriages achieve that, many older people (women esp.) feel trapped and are married because of the social norms of that generation, because of money, etc. Just because that's not as rose-colored an outlook, does not invalidate their experience. It's like the choice House gave 13...either she stabbed the guy in the heart or she didn't, she had to make an instant choice, and she did. Wilson made an instant choice, I don't see it as right or wrong. 13's decision had right and wrong answers. She made the right one, the bus driver is still alive. Whether Wilson made the right choice to prioritize Amber's life over House's is debateable, but he did make a choice. But it is not "obvious" to me that he loved Amber more, just that he was THAT desperate to save her. And not House, for whom the eventual outcome of the DBS was the known risk, and not a small one. Cuddy thought House doing the DBS in his condition would most likely be fatal. My thoughts exactly.

I think if Amber hadn't died, House would be thinking about Wilson asking and he might be reserved, but right now, I think his guilt and fear of Wilson hating him will cancel out every other feeling. Hmm, maybe. I guess I could see House letting his hurt show more if Amber had survived. I do agree that his own guilt and fear of losing Wilson will trump letting him know how hurt he was, even if he still feels that way inside. Bottom line for me is, I don't think Wilson chose Amber's life over House's. Her situation was far more urgent and dire than House's. He made a quick decision when he was desperate. I don't know why it has to be a competition of loving one more than the other. If my sister were seriously ill and the best way to save her was for me to undergo something like the DBS, my parents would not make me or try to guilt me into it, they would aske me if I was willing to do it and let me make the decision. I would never take that as a sign that they value her life more than mine. I would take that is she's about to die, they're desperate, and the risk for her is greater than the one for me and at least my situation can be semicontrolled by doctors, hers for the moment is really out of their hands. Wilson did not demand this of House, he asked and he asked after House had already expressed a willingness to do it. More shortterm dating = real love: my aunt ran off with my uncle when they had only been together a very short while to get married and they've been together for over 30 years. A friend of mine married a guy she knew for a day and calls him the love of her life. Heck, Stacy moved in with House after a week and that lasted five years and the reason it didn't work out had nothing to do with the fact that they rushed into their relationship.

Lightmycandle, I think your scenario leaves out the complicating factors. If a parent had been told that the treatment for the desperately sick child was one the doctors believed to be best and they had no reason to suspect the doctors were wrong, and the reason they wanted the second child to do the very risky procedure was to cover all their bases so as to minimize risk to the first child, that's some complicated family dynamics. Especially keeping in mind that second child has just suffered a near fatal incident herself and the injury from that incident raises the risk factor for the procedure to very high levels--death or brain damage (which indeed is the fear everyone has when House falls into the coma) were very possible outcomes. I don't see anything about that scenario that leads to an easy decision for the parents.

But it's not like that, LMC. Let's make it closer to apples and apples, since it's nowhere near as benign as asking a healthy person to donate a healthy organ, for example (like it was with Matty and his brother, at least in the beginning): if they asked you on the same day that you'd had a heart attack and a cracked skull and the doctor in charge said it might well be fatal or cause brain damage, and they still asked you not to just decide but nearly demanded that you do it? 13's decision had right and wrong answers. She made the right one, the bus driver is still alive. Whether Wilson made the right choice to prioritize Amber's life over House's is debateable, but he did make a choice. jair wrote: But it is not "obvious" to me that he loved Amber more, just that he was THAT desperate to save her. And not House, for whom the eventual outcome of the DBS was the known risk, and not a small one. Cuddy thought House doing the DBS in his condition would most likely be fatal. My thoughts exactly. Yes, that's it. ETA: fixed quotes. I think. ;-)

I'm going to take a stab in the dark. I'm not trying to offend anyone's beliefs here, so this is just a take I thought of. House has been compared in some of the promo pictures as a "Christlike" figure. One could say that the writers pushed the envelope here, and House "laid down his life" in essence, for a friend. Neither House or Wilson knew what the outcome would be and House could have died. Did I make any sense here? If not, I can delete this post.

Why bother quantifying human behavior at all if we can't form conclusions based on the evidence? I can think of plenty of specific examples for my POV that real love is something that you figure out over time, and those tend to happen a lot more often. I didn't say that there's no reason to study human behavior. What I am saying is that any study gives you a bell curve, as Kutner would point out. There are people who fall outside the median. That does not mean that their reaction is wrong, it's just not the average reaction. That's why for some people love takes time, for some it's immediate. Most people fall into the middle -- but not everyone. And, Jair, I agree that there will be repercussions to Wilson's decision. I'm not saying that it won't have an impact, and I'm not saying that Wilson wasn't sure of his decision at that point in time. But I don't think he's evil for asking it -- or somehow doesn't love House -- anymore than I think House is evil for getting drunk and getting Amber into that bus in the first place. Those are the messy issues that they've got to work through. There was no bad guy -- just stressed people who are hurting and looking for answers.

But I don't think he's evil for asking it -- or somehow doesn't love House -- anymore than I think House is evil for getting drunk and getting Amber into that bus in the first place. Those are the messy issues that they've got to work through. There was no bad guy -- just stressed people who are hurting and looking for answers. Oh, I agree there is no bad guy, truly. And I don't think we've suddenly had it revealed that Wilson doesn't care for House at all. There's a friendship there. But I think House did find out something about that friendship that surprised him. I also think that House's part of the scenario ended up where it did because of random events he had no control over. Calling your friend for a ride when you are drunk should not lead to said friend's girlfriend being in a bus accident and getting kidney damage just after having taken amantedine. Wilson's decision was not random, he did have control over it, and the danger to House was foreseeable. It wasn't evil, it didn't mean he had no feelings for House at all, but it did mean that when push came to shove, he needed Amber in his life before House. I think that's significant to how House now sees the friendship. Not that he thinks Wilson is evil--clearly he doesn't--but I think he realises he doesn't have something that he thought he had.

So, I don't think this shows Wilson loves Amber more. But, I could see how House could see that. Exactly. but it did mean that when push came to shove, he needed Amber in his life before House. I think that's significant to how House now sees the friendship. Not that he thinks Wilson is evil--clearly he doesn't--but I think he realises he doesn't have something that he thought he had. Still, I didn't see it as Wilson loving Amber more than House. However, I can understand House feeling that way but I still think that his own guilt over his part in the situation will eat at him the most. Maybe he'll even think that he doesn't deserve to be loved by Wilson, he even said that he kind of deserves to be hated by him and that he should have been the one to die. Again, I don't think Wilson hates him (he's probably extremely angry at the entire situation that could have been avoided in so many ways and he may take some of that out on House) nor is he evil or disloyal to House (personally, I saw more disloyalty when he immediately sold House out to Amber after swearing he wouldn't. Is it weird that his actions in NMMNG bothered me more than the DBS request?) I think he was desperate and he made a decision. But I do think there will be major reprecussions over this entire thing, I think on that we're all agreed.

People are saying that the quickness of Wilson's decision is one of the reasons it shouldn't be read as Wilson choosing Amber over House. I see it as exactly the opposite. If he had had time to carefully weigh his decision when he wasn't being irrational, then of course he couldn't have asked, because all the different ways he loves them both would have come up and he'd have seen the impossibility of logically weighing them one against the other. But he didn't have that time, and the request didn't come from his head. It was his heart and his gut that made the decision, without much input from his head -- and his heart and his gut chose Amber. I do think House read it as Wilson choosing Amber over him, and I agree that this is the critical moment for the show overall, the one that will have the longest lasting repercussions. Yes, Wilson will have his grief to deal with and House will have his guilt, but ultimately, Amber was a dispensable character; it's the relationship between House and Wilson that informs the series beyond any particular arc, and that's what changed in that moment. House realized in that moment that Wilson's love for him was not as all-encompassing as he'd thought or his own love for Wilson was, and now he'll have to deal with that knowledge long after the immediate aftermath of Amber's death. But I don't think this is sad or even bad for their relationship in the long term. Their relationship has always been dysfunctional, and I think power inequities are a large reason why. But this change cracks open the possibility of redefining their relationship on a healthier basis. I think House's immediate reaction to this knowledge will be (or rather, would be if I were writing him) to withdraw further into himself, but at some point he will begin to reach out to others: definitely Cuddy, probably Chase, maybe even Cameron. We've seen the lead-ups for Cuddy and Chase in this spring's eps, and it would give the writers the good excuse to include Chase and Cameron that they claim they're still looking for. If these attempts are successful, then in the long term he'll be able to approach his relationship with Wilson from a much more equal and solid stance. I would absolutely love it if a temporary estrangement between the two provided the reason for House to switch to some other, more objective (i.e., non-Cuddy) prescribing doctor. I don't see how that could be anything but wonderful for House and Wilson's relationship. For Wilson's part... I don't pretend to understand Wilson. He and House are both assholes, but House's assholery is one I understand and can sympathize with, whereas Wilson is just alien to me. The best I can do is flail about looking for explanations that make sense to me, all the while knowing that if what makes sense to me also made sense to Wilson, he wouldn't have done or said half the things he has in this show. That said, I think Wilson loves House, but that the depth of his love has been constrained by two things. The first is that I don't think he's ever really understood how much House cares about him. Their interpersonal styles, their "love languages" (excuse me while I gag at using that term) are so different that Wilson hasn't reliably been able to translate House's behavior into the affection and concern they represent. Hopefully, once his immediate grief over Amber has diminished, House's willingness to sacrifice for him will be easily translatable. The second is that I think Wilson, even more than he loves his women, loves the ideal of heterosexual normative marriage. While he may put House ahead of his soon-to-be-ex-wives, he thinks he should be putting the women first, or that he should be able to find a woman he can always put first. This is why we see him pushing House at various women even when House doesn't seem motivated to seek romance, being content with their friendship and the casual leer. House has valued their bond first (homoerotic or platonic), while Wilson has put their bond ahead of his actual wives, but second behind the ideal. I also think that, however fond he may genuinely have been of Amber, at this stage of their relationship she was still more important to him as that potential ideal than for herself as a unique woman. And I hope that, once the immediate aftermath is over, he'll be able to see that his prioritization of the ideal over the real (his bond with House) could very well have lost him both (killed House without helping Amber), and he'll begin to reconsider his priorities. And if Wilson can get over those two speedbumps, he'll finally be free to return House's love in equal measure. So I don't think we should be sad about the change in their relationship. If it forces both of them to re-evaluate their relationship and approach it from a less-clouded, more equal stance, then it paves the way for their relationship to be stronger and deeper than ever.