Stacy shouldn't have gone behind House's back and authorized the surgery. 13 shouldn't have dosed him so she could test him. And House shouldn't have done any number of things. If your point is that the actions of others can be used to excuse rather than to explain then there's a troubling circular argument in this. Taken to its logical conclusion it becomes impossible to discuss rights and wrongs on the show because every character has done something that is objectively in the wrong column at one point or another. Cameron called the papers in Spin so next time someone violates confidentiality, it's alright? It makes discussing the show a little hard. I'm not out to get you in particular, amysusanne, your quote is just the one that says it the clearest. And on a completely different note, I just notices a wonderful (or perhaps sad) little parallel. The team hunts for a diagnosis and comes up with light chain amyloidosis. 13 doesn't want to know if she has Huntingtons Chorea, which is in fact an amyloidosis.

I didn’t this think one was the tour de force last episode was, but I did find the central question very interesting. What place do hope and wonder play in our lives? How close are they to each other? House’s initial position is that there is nothing to wonder at—his default setting is that he can figure out anything. The magician ably defends the case for wonder by doing a card trick House cannot explain. House is intrigued, but not by the POTW’s defense of a need for wonder in our lives. He wonders what the answer is, and in his view, knowing the answer will not take away the wonder of a well done trick. To House, if you lose the wonder when you know the answer, there was nothing worth wondering about. The magician finds this one hard to argue, but he holds out for the value of wonder. And House’s relentless search for the answer, to the point of telling the POTW he is dying just to see if he’ll tell him the solution, shows how little he has been able to shake the sense of wonder the magician evoked in him. Wonder and hope become entwined in the story as House expands the argument to include hope. He won’t tell the patient what’s wrong with him unless he reveals the trick. House’s hopes are foiled, and he reveals his own trick about the IV tubes, but he feels he’s made his point about the value of knowing over wondering. The magician, who initially refused to allow fear to control his reactions about his possible death, finds it impossible to hold that position when his condition worsens. When the chips are down, he needs to know—and he lets go of hope and wonder and embraces death. To House, this shows how little those two intangibles offered. But the debate does not stop there. 13 echoes the POTW when she tells Cole she’s not going to fret about being fired, because she can’t control the process. We find out she takes the same position in regard to life itself, when she admits to House she hasn’t been tested for Huntington’s Chorea despite a 50% chance of dying young from it. House charges that she is operating from a place of fear and that it is always better to know. But 13 has a different view. She says the reason House asks so many questions is that he hopes one of the answers will change something for him. And if he had no more questions, he would also have no more hope. The charge has the ring of truth for House, who just a few episodes ago was willing to kill himself to find out more about the possibility of an afterlife. The attempt looked like a lack of hope, a lack of value for life, to Wilson. But perhaps in House’s view, it was hope that drove his action—hope of knowing something that will fill a void in him. Either way, the value of hope to House seems inarguable, as he throws the test results in the garbage, unopened.

I forgot to mention that I like a good argument. Thanks everybody. Even though I complain, there is something in every House episode that I like, including this one.

I am fascinated that people who presumably watch this show because of House are taking the side of someone who hurt him. I'm fascinated that just because I watch the show because I'm interested in the character of House that I'm not allowed to see his problems and his flaws and recognize that just because he's House doesn't mean that he's a Saint and everyone else is to be viewed as the enemy. I choose to see House as multidimensional instead of the good to everyone else's evil. Do I want House to be hurt? Of course not. But, c'mon. House isn't above criticism and he shouldn't get away with murder while everyone else is held accountable. House can do it, but no one else can. I think things sometimes need to be looked at from House's point of view and House is many things but he's not an idiot. Like I said above, there is one case where he has tunnel vision and even then he's admitted that Stacy wasn't necessarily wrong in what she did. It's the emotional pain that came with it, not the disability itself that has made House what he is. In the case of things like what 13 did, House doesn't really seem to hold on to that. And while I have no idea what she will do in the future (though if she remains with House she may well do things like that many more times before her fellowship is up) I do know that House will absolutely dose someone else, perform procedures without permission and generally remain a walking, talking malpractice suit. If your point is that the actions of others can be used to excuse rather than to explain then there's a troubling circular argument in this. That actually wasn't my point, I was was purposefully oversimplifying it. I think I made it clear in the follow up post, but it's possible that I didn't. Taken to its logical conclusion it becomes impossible to discuss rights and wrongs on the show because every character has done something that is objectively in the wrong column at one point or another. Cameron called the papers in Spin so next time someone violates confidentiality, it's alright? It makes discussing the show a little hard. I'm not out to get you in particular, amysusanne, your quote is just the one that says it the clearest. I think that's a fine point and I don't disagree with it, but I do think that certain actions by certain characters make certain actions taken towards certain characters shine in a different light. I think you have to take into consideration how that particular character feels and what the motivation of the person taking action against them is. I don't think there are absolute wrongs or rights because while on paper there are many, many wrongs from House, 13, Stacy, Cameron, Chase, etc., they aren't all black and white. And no, I absolutely *don't* hold the argument that, using "Spin" as an example, that what Cameron does in that episode makes all confidentiality violations a-ok. I think that takes oversimplification to a whole new level and, imo, that wasn't anywhere close to what I was saying even when I was being slightly sarcastic about it. To use that same example, obviously everyone in the hospital doesn't get a free pass on confidentiality violations, but should someone violate Cameron's confidentiality, while it doesn't make it right, it does put it in a different light from her perspective and she will no doubt view it in a more complex manner than just "OMG, THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS!!!". I think that adds more depth to a discussion of an episode than simply taking the stand that House = Good, Everyone Else = a threat to House. Just as he shouldn't get away with things that, in the eyes of the viewer, no one else is allowed to, other characters, when giving "House" back to House shouldn't automatically be held up as the ultimate evil. It doesn't seem to me that things are that simple when you're dealing with a character like House. And I don't think it should be.

House’s initial position is that there is nothing to wonder at <snip> The magician ably defends the case for wonder by doing a card trick House cannot explain. House is intrigued, but not by the POTW’s defense of a need for wonder in our lives. He wonders what the answer is, and in his view, knowing the answer will not take away the wonder of a well done trick. I suspect this is one of those eps that will seem much more meaningful after we can place it in the context of the rest of the season. I'd like to believe that those deeper meanings ... the role of hope and wonder in our lives, the perceptions and illusions mentioned earlier ... are the real importance of this episode, but I'm not yet seeing the linkages with earlier eps in the season. I will say that I don't think House was de-valuing wonder at all; I don't believe he thinks it needs defending in the first place. What he's questioning is the idea that the patter and the illusions, the deflection and evasion, are necessary to maintain the sense of wonder (which is ironic, given that he uses patter and illusion to deflect people from his own truths). Just because it seems very relevant: "And we who listen to the stars, or walk the dusty grade, Or break the very atoms down to see how they are made, Or study cells, or living things, seek truth with open hand. The profoundest act of worship is to try to understand." ("The Word of God", Kathy Mar/Catherine Faber)

PPTH: Where you can do biopsies quickly, casually, and on your boss. Did 13 administer the lidocaine when Cole was talking to her? I remember something with a syringe, but didn't see exactly what was going on. Because liver biopsies are frickin' painful, with or without lidocaine. Plus, and I'm not an expert on procedures here, I don't think they would do it that quickly and/or unguided. As for the scooter, I didn't see that scene (damn you, DVR!), but I don't think it would really be a problem. Like others have said, the stress is on the left leg and lightly pushing wouldn't be at all bad for the right. Scooters usually have brakes on the back wheel, so stopping wouldn't normally be a problem either. I really, really, really want the blood-type discussion to lead somewhere. The subject got dropped so suddenly that Wilson, invariably curious, HAS to go after it. Then again, that's what we all said after the I Love You. Oh, and that line of Wilson's about "you're going to go running out of here, aren't you?" Priceless. A little meta, but priceless. I'm really not liking the options we have left for fellows. Trying to pick out any team of three really isn't working for me, especially when Scooter and now Cole left. I just hope 13 gets demoralized, realizes what an invasion of privacy life with House entails, and leaves. She's just not interesting.

I rewatched a couple of scenes, and we do see Thirteen prepping a syringe, supposedly with lidocaine, but we don't see her actually inject it. So if you're a 13-hater, you're free to say that she's a bitch who intentionally hurt him, if you're not, you're free to say that she probably gave him the lidocaine and we just didn't see it. And in terms of the Wilson blood type ... twice House denies actually knowing Wilson's blood type, says he just went with type O because it fit Wilson's metaphor, but by the end of the scene, it's not clear whether Wilson believes him.

amysusanne, I suspect we agree. The show does seem to have a baseline of outrageous behaviour that wouldn't be tolerated in RL (Cuddy's wardrobe is an example). Similarly, there are occasions when the show tweaks facts in a way that impact what is and isn't appropriate (e.g. the tilt-table test in TB or Not TB). And, FWIW, I never suggested that House=Good and Everyone Else=Bad, Bad People was a good way of looking at it. I agree that the characters are multidimensional - that's why I watch the show. I rewatched a couple of scenes, and we do see Thirteen prepping a syringe, supposedly with lidocaine, but we don't see her actually inject it. So if you're a 13-hater, you're free to say that she's a bitch who intentionally hurt him, if you're not, you're free to say that she probably gave him the lidocaine and we just didn't see it. Well, I'm not a 13-hater, but I don't think she used it. Firstly, lidocaine takes a few minutes to work. Secondly, House said 'perhaps you should use a little lidocaine' clearly indicating that he knew she hadn't anaesthetised the site. I'm of the opinion that it's as close to canon as we get when it comes to House.

So far I think the role of intangibles like faith, hope and wonder and what makes life worth living seem to be a common theme. House has fenced with Cole over faith, killed himself to test his own faith in there being nothing after death, thereby showing he's not as sure as he sounds, and now examined the value and definition of hope and wonder. We had the deformed boy who was willing to risk his life in the hope of being normal rather than look for the underlying illness, and the general theme of how perception forms as well as records reality, so what do we really know? I think House's faith in the power of knowledge may be this season's theme.

Well, I'm not a 13-hater, but I don't think she used it. Firstly, lidocaine takes a few minutes to work. Secondly, House said 'perhaps you should use a little lidocaine' clearly indicating that he knew she hadn't anaesthetised the site. I'm of the opinion that it's as close to canon as we get when it comes to House. Since we know she had a needle most likely full of lidocaine, is it possible she administered it before House woke up and he didn't know? I thought her reply sounded sarcastic, but I wasn't sure if it was because she had administered the lidocaine and his question about her doctoring skills was unnecessary, or because she had deliberately decided not to, in which case, she's fallen into Cameron territory, which is a shame for a number of reasons.

He asked for lidocaine then she shoved that needle in him and he made an "in pain" sound. It never occured to me that she gave him any. Silja, I'm always fascinated by the flip side of your argument. If one comments on something a character does wrong, several people always pipe up with "House did this, that and the other which were far worse." How does that make it okay? Other than his dedication to curing his patient, House is hardly a role model for anything. If House hits a patient with his cane, does that mean that we can't criticize another doctor for punching a patient? House's behavior is usually worse than anyone else's. Not bothering to discuss his less egregious acts is not the same thing as condoning them. And the fact that he does worse does not excuse the behavior of the other characters. And that's a long way round to say that I think both House and 13 were wrong in the drugging war. House was wrong because he didn't know why she didn't use caffeine (it could have been dangerous for her to ingest) and because of the psychological trauma he may have inflicted on her. 13 was wrong because no effort was made to ensure House's physical safety when the drugs took effect and because they conducted invasive procedures on him without consent and, apparently, anesthesia. I don't care which of them was "wronger."

Poeia, I personally start with the baseline that House is an unapologetic jerk 80 percent of the time, and really shouldn't be used as an example of the best way to behave for anything, outside of advocating for his patient. So I don't think his behavior should be used to excuse 13's behavior. In this case, I think they both acted improperly, but for varying reasons -- for House to settle his curiosity, and for 13 as part of the diagnosis -- and used different methods -- caffeine and drugs, respectively. Was one person worse than the other? I don't think so.

He asked for lidocaine then she shoved that needle in him and he made an "in pain" sound. It never occured to me that she gave him any. I'm not sure on this and am really asking. But I thought the fact that she previously had a syringe of what I thought would be some sort of numbing thing made it a little less than clear. I'm also operating under the assumption the liver biopsy would be painful to some degree no matter what--I may be wrong on that, I've never had one. The dialogue was suggestive that she didn't use it, though.

The dialogue and the action were suggestive that she didn't use the lidocaine. But then again, this is 13. If there's been anything been made clear about her is that she's wicked good at prepping medication, terrible about making sure it gets administered. Actually, I have no idea what she was putting in the syringe at all, if it was actually lidocaine. But I do know that whatever's in the syringe doesn't make it into House because it's still sitting on the tray with it's plunger fully extended out.

Silja, I'm always fascinated by the flip side of your argument. If one comments on something a character does wrong, several people always pipe up with "House did this, that and the other which were far worse." How does that make it okay? It doesn't make it okay at all. I don't know the motivation behind other people pointing out House's own ethical "challenges", but I tend to pipe up with that when the argument seems to be swinging in the direction of stringing up some character for their behaviour while holding House up as the most bestest thing ever. House isn't anywhere close to the most bestest thing ever and I can't figure out why he sometimes gets the free pass on things while the others don't. They're wrong when they do "wrong" things. So is he. I can't count the number of times I've seen comments about how Foreman shouldn't do something because Foreman isn't House. Foreman shouldn't skate across the lines of legalities because in most cases it would be wrong, not simply because he's not that dreamy Dr. House. That said, I really do think that that context applies. I think that the idea that House would do what 13 did is relevant when it's actually happening to House because I don't believe for one second that House was in any way traumatized by it. He's a big boy who has seen and done many things and, likewise, has had many things done to him. Nothing happening in that room should have come as a surprise to him and I don't think for one second that he went home and cried himself to sleep that night. Unless it's a personal betrayal or a threat to the balance of the little Universe that he's built up, I've never thought House to be, based on what we've seen, all that shaken by anything happening to him or around him. And as far as that Universe goes, between the season three finale and this week's episode he's clearly learned to cope with that whole balance thing. And, FWIW, I never suggested that House=Good and Everyone Else=Bad, Bad People was a good way of looking at it. I agree that the characters are multidimensional - that's why I watch the show. To add further clarity: I've never seen you say anything that I interpreted that way, so your reputation is clean. {g}